FCC wants to fine Idaho man $34K for interfering in radio transmissions during wildfire

[mmckenna]

Can a individual that does not have their amateur radio license transmit emergency traffic on ham radio bands.

Ask that on a ham heavy site like QRZ and listen to the howls of protest. Commoners are not allowed access to ham for any reason and hams will chase them down. The old "official observer" corps would file a complaint.

There was a PD a few years back that got busted for putting Kenwood 2 meter radios in some of their cars and the officers were using a 2 meter simplex frequency as a car to car channel. FCC came down on them pretty hard, and the ham community were really upset that non-hams were using their precious resources.

In other words, for the small minded individual hams that dream this stuff up, the door only swings in one direction.

 

[KK4JUG]

One ham told me he would transmit on a public safety frequency if he was being shot at.

There's a big difference in him and me. I'd be waaay too busy returning fire.

 

[W2JEL]

Ask that on a ham heavy site like QRZ and listen to the howls of protest. Commoners are not allowed access to ham for any reason and hams will chase them down. The old "official observer" corps would file a complaint.

There was a PD a few years back that got busted for putting Kenwood 2 meter radios in some of their cars and the officers were using a 2 meter simplex frequency as a car to car channel. FCC came down on them pretty hard, and the ham community were really upset that non-hams were using their precious resources.

In other words, for the small minded individual hams that dream this stuff up, the door only swings in one direction.

This story has 35 pages of "expert legal" opinion over in the Viper Den I like to call QRZ.

 

[KK4JUG]

It has occurred to me that our local agencies have used ham operators during emergencies. Our mobile command post, a 40' bus, has multiple radios including aircraft, marine, programmable UHF & VHF, low band FM, 800 mHz AND two ham radios. I managed and operated the bus and served as communications officer. Of course, I'm a licensed ham. In addition, the EMA director is also licensed. In all honesty, in the twenty or so years I worked on the bus, I can only remember using the ham radios a couple of times for official business. That's not to say we didn't play around with them when things were slow. A couple of local hams have also helped us maintain the radios and antennae. Fortunately, neither has expressed a desire to do anything more than that.

(I no longer work on the bus. At 78, I figured my dues were paid and I tried to divorce myself from it. I've been called back a couple of times to help with the satellite dish and the on-board cameras.)

 

[AK9R]

The ARRL VEC pool questions encourage misunderstanding of 97.405.

The amateur radio test question pools are developed by the National Conference of Volunteer Examiner Coordinators, not by the ARRL. The ARRL has one seat on the NCVEC Question Pool Committee. Are you also suggesting that the Anchorage VEC, WCARS VEC, Greater Los Angeles Amateur Radio Group VEC, and W5YI VEC, all of whom have seats on the QPC, encourage misunderstanding of the rules?

I just looked through the Technician question pool effective July 1, 2022, issued by the NCVEC. The closest I can find to your assertion that the questions encourage misunderstanding of 97.405 is this:

T2C09
Are amateur station control operators ever permitted to operate outside the frequency privileges of their license class?
A. No
B. Yes, but only when part of a FEMA emergency plan
C. Yes, but only when part of a RACES emergency plan
D. Yes, but only in situations involving the immediate safety of human life or protection of property

The question doesn't say "outside the frequency privileges of amateur radio". It says "outside the frequency privileges of their license class". In other words, a Technician can use frequencies in the Extra portion of the bands in situations involving the immediate safety of human life or protection of property.

I'll also note that if you back up to question T2C01, it reads:

When do FCC rules NOT apply to the operation of an amateur station?
A. When operating a RACES station
B. When operating under special FEMA rules
C. When operating under special ARES rules
D. FCC rules always apply

In both cases, the italicized answers are the correct answers per the QPC.

Note that T2C01 and T2C09 read the same in the 2018-2022 question pool.

Also, here is a quote from the ARES Manual published by the ARRL: "If you are not allowed to do something in one service but you are allowed to do it in the other service, then you must be operating in the service where it is allowed. Many amateurs believe 'In an emergency, anything goes.' This is not true."

Another quote from the ARES Manual: "While the prime objective of emergency communications is to save and protect lives and property, Amateur Radio is a secondary or backup communications means; normal public safety channels are primary and should be used if available."

 

[mmckenna]

This story has 35 pages of "expert legal" opinion over in the Viper Den I like to call QRZ.

Yep, and exactly why I avoid QRZ. I work in the LMR industry and some of the B.S. that gets tossed around over there is just mind numbing.

 

[nd5y]

How could anybody be triggered by the QRZ forums but not by the RadioReference forums? It's mostly the same stuff on both.

 

[mmckenna]

How could anybody be triggered by the QRZ forums but not by the RadioReference forums? It's mostly the same stuff on both.

I wouldn't use the word "triggered", I would call it a low tolerance for B.S.

There are less self proclaimed "experts" here. More people actually looking for information.
The few times I was on QRZ it was dominated by incessant arguing over minute details (God forbid someone didn't compute dB loss down to the 20th decimal place and simply rounded up to the 19 decimal place!), and down right false information spread by someone who had just passed a 35 question multiple choice test and was now a radio expert.

Nice thing is I get to choose where and when I waste my time. Currently I choose this site. Might change tomorrow, idk.

 

[buddrousa]

What most likely was ment in the rules when they were written was a lesser licensed ham could use any ham frequency if it was a life threatening.

 

[mmckenna]

^^^^^ someone who gets it.

 

[W2JEL]

Yep, and exactly why I avoid QRZ. I work in the LMR industry and some of the B.S. that gets tossed around over there is just mind numbing.

I only go there for the entertainment value. I actually learn something on RR and use the databases.

 

[buddrousa]

It is the old saying give a person a piece of candy and they want the entire bag.

 

[W2JEL]

What most likely was ment in the rules when they were written was a lesser licensed ham could use any ham frequency if it was a life threatening.

That was what I was always taught. To me it's a no brainer to stay off public safety bands.

 

[AK9R]

I wouldn't use the word "triggered", I would call it a low tolerance for B.S.

It would be unprofessional for me to speak negatively about another radio-oriented forum in this forum...so I won't. The challenge for us moderators is to recognize when the BS level is rising and tamp it down as necessary. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don't.

Nice thing is I get to choose where and when I waste my time. Currently I choose this site. Might change tomorrow, idk.

I, for one, am glad you are here.

 

[bharvey2]

That was what I was always taught. To me it's a no brainer to stay off public safety bands.

Of course it is a no brainer. As I've mentioned before, it's written quite clearly in black and white where ham operators can and can't transmit. However, let's make it even simpler: I'm licensed to drive a number of different types of vehicles and have a good deal of experience with a variety of cars, trucks, etc. However, nothing makes me think that I have any right to get in to any police vehicle, fire truck, city utility vehicle etc. and drive away. Why? It's simple enough: IT'S NOT MINE. Sure some will say "But my taxes pay for..." Yeah, lay off the meds.

 

[mmckenna]

It would be unprofessional for me to speak negatively about another radio-oriented forum in this forum...so I won't. The challenge for us moderators is to recognize when the BS level is rising and tamp it down as necessary. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don't.

I was a moderator on another (now defunct) site for a while. I do not envy your job.

I, for one, am glad you are here.

No matter where I go, there I am. Thanks.

-or-

I yam what I yam, and that's all that I yam. - Popeye the Sailor Man, originally USCG in his first cartoon.

 

[tommytimbertoes]

This should be a sticky for all the hams who think that hacking their amateur radios to talk on public safety frequencies is OK, even if it's to "help".

Not only does he need a $34,000 fine, he needs to have all his radios and other licenses taken away, and preferably castrated so he cannot procreate.

Ham radio, when all else fails, we'll get in the way.

Don't paint all hams with such a broad brush, most of us abide by the rules. There are always a few people in any hobby that seem to feel the need to feel "important" or want to be a "big shot". We are not all like that.

 

[mmckenna]

Don't paint all hams with such a broad brush, most of us abide by the rules. There are always a few people in any hobby that seem to feel the need to feel "important" or want to be a "big shot". We are not all like that.

I know, I've been a ham for 30 something years. Most are pretty good. That's why it was aimed at "all the hams that think…"

You'll find that in the LMR industry, most have a ham license. They either got their start in amateur radio, or got their ticket because they could later on.

 

[gman4661]

He should have been wearing his hi-viz "Communications" vest, then it would have been ok.

Dang, too bad Jeremy Dewitte (Motor 1) couldn't be there to assist. After all, the guy jumped in Fullujah. A little forest fire would be a piece of cake. Maybe when his current assignment as a covert plant inside a state government facility is completed, he will make us all proud.

 

[AK9R]

An attorney, who doesn't seem to have any particular qualifications in communications law, provides his opinion: