Fdny Nypd Etc Interoperability

Status
Not open for further replies.

gothamite

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Messages
50
Today's (Thursday, 31 July 2008) New York Times has an article Police and Fire Radios Are Talking to Each Other. My only real knowledge of the technical aspects of scanning is turning the radio on and finding the frequencies I want; I claim no in-depth radio knowledge. That said, I have a question: my hand-held Radio Shack PRO-94 scanner has 500 channels I can listen to. Why can't the entire interoperability question for the various emergency services be resolved by making the same radios with transmit capabilities. If you're on the PD frequency and need to talk to FD, just change the channel. I understand the critical need for inter-agency communication, especially here in NYC; what I don't understand is why the technical aspect seems so overwhelming and has taken so long.

Can anyone give me some help understanding this and what I'm missing?
 

ICP114

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
75
Because the depts act like big babys when it comes to who does what.

for example. the vol ambulances here in the city can not talk to the regular ems 911 dispatch

but take newark nj UMDNJ dispatches ironbound to all 911 calls in their city

only nyc acts likes BIG BABYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

n2nov

NYC/NNJ DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
626
Location
Staten Island, NYC
"Today's (Thursday, 31 July 2008) New York Times has an article Police and Fire Radios Are Talking to Each Other."

This summer, the radios for FDNY/EMS have been reprogrammed to have NYPD CW and precinct channels in them.
Everything can be found at http://www.n2nov.net
 

sc8

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
623
I sometimes wonder myself why I seem to have better interoperability with my $150 scanner, than the police departments do with their multi-thousand dollar radio systems.

For example, I have one MRD channel put in on HB and I can hear all transmissions. None of that, "Goshen is the best tower for us, but they keep trying to call us on Schennumunk, so we can't hear them stuff."
 

SCANdal

Silent Key
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
935
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
What's "MRD" in New York City?

For example, I have one MRD channel put in on HB and I can hear all transmissions. None of that, "Goshen is the best tower for us, but they keep trying to call us on Schennumunk, so we can't hear them stuff."
What? ?
 
Last edited:

sc8

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
623
Sorry, thought that made sense.

I will try explaining it again later.
 

SCANdal

Silent Key
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
935
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Please share!

8,

I'd appreciate that. I wasn't aware of any channels being designated "M R D" in New York City. What's the frequency or talkgroup? Who's using it? Do tell! Do tell!

SCANdal
 

newsnick175

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
660
Location
Denver, North Carolina
Interoperability is the biggest "Buzz-word" of the century. It's the best thing to happen to the radio industry since voice modulation. Just what do you think will happen the **** hits the fan and everyone gets on the "interoperability channel"? NOTHING! No one will be able to complete a communication with out some one else jumping in because he thinks what he needs to say is more inportant. You give open access to a channel and you are inviting DISASTER! Just listen to the tapes of FDNY's fire ground channel from 9-11 and multiply that by the number of agencies with access. The answer is "Unified Command". Put the commands of each agency in the same place at the same time to coordinate there efforts and communicate with their own troops.

Now I know interoperbility sounds great, you can hear all the action on one channel, but it won't work. A chopper pilot can't be calling a firefighter in a burning building and expect to compete with every firefighter, ems and cop who wants to call some one about their problem! Unified Command is the only way, but as it has been said before, cops don't like to talk with firemen and visa-versa.

The truth is that the king has no clothes and Interoperability is just the excuse used by the leaders of our emergency services when asked "what went wrong". "If we only had radio interoperability" they said. Ya that's the answer! This kind of thinking will kill first responders when the **** hits the fan!
 

SCANdal

Silent Key
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
935
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Are you breakin' my shoes?

AEMT,

Oh, okay. The OP / original post was about interops in New York City; that's what had me confused when mentions of MRD and High Band got thrown into mix.

I know that Dutchess refers to 155.370 as MRD1 - but not too many other people call it that. I prefer the more common "police Statewide." The problem with the term MRD is that it means different things in different places. In Nassau and Orange it means Municipal Radio Dispatch. In Dutchess it means Mobile Radio District. And, as you mentioned, it's not recognized at all in New York City

SCANdal
 
Last edited:

sc8

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
623
Just Central's latest problem. If Central is in Goshen, and the Goshen Police Departments are in Goshen, doesn't it make sense to use Goshen tower? Rather they use Schennumunk in Blooming Grove.

What I was saying is that on my scanner, I can hear MRD in Orange County no matter what tower they are speaking on, just by inputting 155.850 in CSQ. On the other hand, a police department, with presumably more expensive equipment can not hear them, if they are broadcasting on a tower that is out of range. Because each tower is a separate channel in the radio.

To expand further on that better interoperability with a scanner thing.

On my pro97 I have 800 MHZ police, High Band Police, 400 MHZ Police, and Low Band Fire, all on one scanner, where as in a police department, you would need four different radios to hear all of that.
I probably should have made another thread on this.
 
Last edited:

gcr33

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2001
Messages
655
Location
Fl.
Am I missing something or did this thread change from NYC to Orange Co?

Actually in NYS MRD meant Mobile Radio District. These were areas financed in some form by the state.
155.37 was designated as a statewide mutual aid channel. Up until a short period of time a the Tri Boro radio dispatch used that freq. as a dispatch channel. They are gone and so is the use of this channel.
 

PJH

Database Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
Messages
3,591
Addressing a couple of things here...

Up until very recently with the advent of the software defined radio (Thales Liberty, Motorola APX series) radios needed to be type accepted by the FCC. Again, up until recently, this pretty much meant that you needed to stick two or more complete radios in one box, or wired together. Of course, this made a rather large portable radio, or investing in 2x the cost. Motorola was one of the few compaines that did produce such radios. They had a dual band portable, but was rather short lived and it would have been easier to carry around a brick. Their Syntor X9000 (HHCH & Systems 9000), Spectra (HHCH) and ASTRO Spectra (also, HHCH) have been the only radio dual radios.

However, your still looking at TWO radios, and 2x the price.

Rewind many years ago, you only had one or two radio bands open, so what was the need for them? Radios pricing (adjusting for inflation) were just as expensive then, as they are now. Everyone was on lowband, then some on VHF as lowband became crowded, etc.

IIRC, when the FCC opened up T-Band, NYPD moved their due to all of its radio requirement and it was pretty much wide open to them. Fire had no such need at the time and where perfectly happy where they where. As the cost of portable radios came down and the need arose at the fire service, their fireground ops went UHF.

800 was seen as an upgrade for agencies and thats how some people got up and running there...and also because there just isn't anymore room on the other existing bands that would work well in the metro area.

Scanners are very simple (and usually ovepriced) item. They are no where complex as a two-way mobile and should in no way be compared to interop or its ease of implemenation.

MRD is used in the city, and around the state...usually as a car to car freq. All state police vehicles and many sheriff's departments use it. Some areas it is used for 911 polling or simialar function. There have been several names made up for it, and the lines are pretty blurry on which one(s) was the orginal.

Metro Radio Dispatch
Moble Radio District
Municipal Radio Dispatch
blah blah
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top