FDNY Portable Zone A question

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Lynch_Christopher

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I was looking at the scanner master New York and New Jersey Communications guide and was a little confused by what looks like to be 2 Zone A's and I was wondering which one was correct.

On page 37 it lists the following channel plans:

Listed as New Digital Radios
Channel 1 486.1125 MHz TAC 1
Channel 2 485.1875 MHz Command 1
Channel 3 486.2625 MHz TAC2
Channel 4 487.2625 MHz HT-4
Channel 5 487.1375 MHz HT-5
Channel 6 485.2625 MHz HT-6
Channel 7 486.1375 MHz HT-7
Channel 8 485.0625 MHz HT-8
Channel 9 486.01875 MHz HT-9 Digital
Channel 10 487.48750 MHz TAC 2 EMS/Fire (85.4)
Channel 11 483.01250R MHz Building Repeater (173.8)
Channel 12 483.00625 MHz Building Repeater Digital
Channel 13 484.7625R MHz Mobile Battalion Chief Repeater (173.8)
Channel 14 460.5750 MHz Subway 1 (110.9)
Channel 15 460.6250 MHz Subway 2 (103.5)
Channel 16 486.7375 MHz Emergency (CSQ)

Listed as New UHF Portable Radios Zone A
Channel 1 485.2625 MHz HT1 Fireground
Channel 2 486.0125 MHz HT2 Fireground
Channel 3 486.1125 MHz HT3 Fireground
Channel 4 487.0125 MHz Queens Fireground
Channel 5 486.2635 MHz Brooklyn Fireground
Channel 6 486.1375 MHz Manhattan Fireground
Channel 7 487.2625 MHz Bronx Fireground
Channel 8 487.1375 MHz Staten Island Fireground
Channel 9 486.74375 MHz Digital Fireground
Channel 10 487.4875 MHz EMSC Fireground TAC-2
Channel 11 483.7375R MHz High-rise in Building Repeater system - Analog
Channel 12 483.73125R MHz High-rise In-building Repeater system - Digital
Channel 13 483.76250R MHz Mobile Battalion Chief's Repeater system
Channel 14 460.57500R MHz Subway Repeater F-1
Channel 15 460.62500R MHz Subway Repeater F-2
Channel 16 487.76250R MHz Emergency Channel

I guess the question I am asking is which lineup is actually Zone A, I know that the radio reference database shows the first list but I was a little confused where the second list came from and don't see that listed anywhere. Since the book was published in 2003 I am sure some of the information is out of date. I know that a couple of the frequencies are similar between the two lists.

Thanks
 

n2nov

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Parsed from the RadioReference listings (more detailed lists can be found at http://www.n2nov.net/fdny_hts.html):

Fireground (Handhelds)
Zone A is Fire Operations, Zone B is the same as Zone A except with channels B5 through B9 reserved to be repeated in the future and Zone C is Interoperability Operations. Battalion Chiefs have Zones B and C.

Zone A (Fire Operations)
486.11250 CSQ TAC 1
485.18750 CSQ CMD 1 - Command 1
486.26250 CSQ TAC 2
487.26250 CSQ HT4 - Fireground
487.13750 CSQ HT5 - Fireground
485.26250 CSQ HT6 - Fireground
486.13750 CSQ HT7 - Fireground
485.06250 CSQ HT8 - Fireground
486.01875 P25 HT9 - Fireground (Digital)
487.48750 85.4 EMS TAC 2 - Fireground
483.01250 173.8 High-Rise In-Building Repeater
484.76250 173.8 Battalion Chief Vehicle Repeater
460.48750 241.8 NYPD Tac U
460.57500 110.9 Subway Repeater 1
460.62500 103.5 Subway Repeater 2
486.73750 CSQ Emergency

Zone B
486.11250 CSQ TAC 1
485.18750 CSQ CMD 1 - Command 1
486.26250 CSQ TAC 2
487.26250 CSQ HT4 - Fireground
487.48750 85.4 EMS TAC 2 - Fireground
483.01250 173.8 High-Rise In-Building Repeater
484.76250 173.8 Battalion Chief Vehicle Repeater
460.48750 241.8 NYPD Tac U
460.57500 110.9 Subway Repeater 1
460.62500 103.5 Subway Repeater 2
486.73750 CSQ Emergency


Zone C (Interoperability)
486.11250 CSQ Tac 1
485.18750 CSQ CMD 1
486.26250 CSQ Tac 2
487.26250 CSQ HT 4
482.68750 110.9 NYPD CW InterOp
482.38750 110.9 NYPD CW-SI InterOp
482.71250 123.0 NYPD Manhattan InterOp
482.73750 136.5 NYPD Bronx InterOp
482.78750 151.4 NYPD Brooklyn InterOp
482.81250 167.9 NYPD Queens InterOp
482.83750 186.2 NYPD SI-North InterOp
482.53750 186.2 NYPD SI-South InterOp
486.73750 CSQ Emergency
 

Lynch_Christopher

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Thanks for the response I really appreciate it. So I take it that these lists have been confirmed?

Parsed from the RadioReference listings (more detailed lists can be found at http://www.n2nov.net/fdny_hts.html):

Fireground (Handhelds)
Zone A is Fire Operations, Zone B is the same as Zone A except with channels B5 through B9 reserved to be repeated in the future and Zone C is Interoperability Operations. Battalion Chiefs have Zones B and C.

Zone A (Fire Operations)
486.11250 CSQ TAC 1
485.18750 CSQ CMD 1 - Command 1
486.26250 CSQ TAC 2
487.26250 CSQ HT4 - Fireground
487.13750 CSQ HT5 - Fireground
485.26250 CSQ HT6 - Fireground
486.13750 CSQ HT7 - Fireground
485.06250 CSQ HT8 - Fireground
486.01875 P25 HT9 - Fireground (Digital)
487.48750 85.4 EMS TAC 2 - Fireground
483.01250 173.8 High-Rise In-Building Repeater
484.76250 173.8 Battalion Chief Vehicle Repeater
460.48750 241.8 NYPD Tac U
460.57500 110.9 Subway Repeater 1
460.62500 103.5 Subway Repeater 2
486.73750 CSQ Emergency

Zone B
486.11250 CSQ TAC 1
485.18750 CSQ CMD 1 - Command 1
486.26250 CSQ TAC 2
487.26250 CSQ HT4 - Fireground
487.48750 85.4 EMS TAC 2 - Fireground
483.01250 173.8 High-Rise In-Building Repeater
484.76250 173.8 Battalion Chief Vehicle Repeater
460.48750 241.8 NYPD Tac U
460.57500 110.9 Subway Repeater 1
460.62500 103.5 Subway Repeater 2
486.73750 CSQ Emergency


Zone C (Interoperability)
486.11250 CSQ Tac 1
485.18750 CSQ CMD 1
486.26250 CSQ Tac 2
487.26250 CSQ HT 4
482.68750 110.9 NYPD CW InterOp
482.38750 110.9 NYPD CW-SI InterOp
482.71250 123.0 NYPD Manhattan InterOp
482.73750 136.5 NYPD Bronx InterOp
482.78750 151.4 NYPD Brooklyn InterOp
482.81250 167.9 NYPD Queens InterOp
482.83750 186.2 NYPD SI-North InterOp
482.53750 186.2 NYPD SI-South InterOp
486.73750 CSQ Emergency
 

tbendick

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Charles list is good. Only change is that we are using 11 and 12 as building repeaters.
The mobile repeater curently in use is just a version of a PAC-RT.
 

a1emt

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Are they really running 'CSQ' (carrier squelch) on all those Tac and Command channels? In such a huge urban area I would think intermod and interference would run rampant and a PL/DPL would be used to avoid audible interference. What am I missing from this equation?

Jim
 

tbendick

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All FDNY fire tac channels are csq.
Yes it's fustrating but most ff's have no idea about pl tones and that it could make the noise go away. Ever time I ask about this the techs state that they want it this way so that we know there is interference and change channels. In reality all we do is turn down the volume, we are not a department that switches channels it's 1 all the time.
 

khoelldobler

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This is a very imformative thread. Thank you ! There was alot I didn't know about as far as thier zone plan. Thanks again. However, I tried to click on the link that was in the above post and it did not work for me... just wanted to let you guys now.
 
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Lynch_Christopher

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Charles list is good. Only change is that we are using 11 and 12 as building repeaters.
The mobile repeater curently in use is just a version of a PAC-RT.

Regarding the Battalion chief vehicle repeater does that repeat the dispatch channel so that the battalion chief can hear it or does it repeat the fireground channel?

Second question since the FDNY now has UHF dispatch channels and have migrated away from UHF do they still use 160.335 as a coordination channel with Grand Central??
 

pro106import

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This is a very imformative thread. Thank you ! There was alot I didn't know about as far as thier zone plan. Thanks again. However, I tried to click on the link that was in the above post and it did not work for me... just wanted to let you guys now.

The link had a little extra at the end (typo)
Try this:

Future FDNY Frequencies

Bob
 

sjman79

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I trust tbendick and n2nov to jump in, if needed, as they are top on FDNY, but as I understand it, the HT frequencies aren't really CSQ. FDNY uses a hybrid P25/analog system. Transmissions begin and end in P25 (NAC 293) but switch to analog for the actual voice transmissions. This is a particular problem for the pro-106 and similar radios. If current RS/GRE radios have tone set to none, they will still decode the P25 signal and lock on into the standard delay, missing large parts of transmissions. My solution was to set those channels to CTCSS instead, forcing the radio into analog. HT 9 is digital with NAC 293.
 

tbendick

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Grand central is all done on the old radios 154.430 with a mini building repeater inside the terminal. We keep the old radios around for this purpose and have tieline link for the command post to the repeater. Bunch of the guys keep the gct fire command station phone number in thier cell phones for quicker access.

The tacs are csq and you need to program them in that way. The radio ID is the special feature using a form of p25.
 

AlexC

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With the signaling system they use - CSQ is required. They worked with the FCC when they licensed all the HT channels and if you look you will not find another license issued within (i think - don't quote me) 120 miles of NYC on those frequencies... This goes especially for HT1.

If you hear "interfearance" it could simply be another unit operating on a roof or not too far out of your current location - but not good enough to hear.

The City does not have any receivers/voters/etc on this channel (to my knowledge). If FOC wants to hear the audio, fieldcomm will go and use a JPS over the dedicated citywide EVDO system or via cellular. I know there are reports as well of them patching the audio over the UHF trunk, but that AFAIK is a fieldcomm thing as well.

_Alex
 

Lynch_Christopher

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Grand central is all done on the old radios 154.430 with a mini building repeater inside the terminal. We keep the old radios around for this purpose and have tieline link for the command post to the repeater. Bunch of the guys keep the gct fire command station phone number in thier cell phones for quicker access.

The tacs are csq and you need to program them in that way. The radio ID is the special feature using a form of p25.

Thats interesting that 154.4300 is used for Grand Central. I was looking in the FCC database and it looks like their is a control point for this 154.4300 and 153.8300 at Grand Central along with a couple of transmitter sites which I find kind of interesting.

With their being six fireground channels how do the firefighters know which channel to operate on, does the dispatcher let them know what channel to operate on like other departments. With the FDNY being such a big department it seems like things could get kind of confusing about what channel to use.
 

tbendick

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The interfearance I was talking about was from things like computer equipment and stuff like that. For example the fruit stand we stop by all was is a problem near the special lights they have.

The battalion repeater uses 153 .830 to talk to the bc portable radio and gets linked to a UHF mobile. Leave it csq because they use many pls for channel steering.

As far as what tac channel we use it's always 1. We don't change that it, I have only changed once and it was after the fire was under control
3rd alarms the chiefs will use ht2 as the command channel
at hirise fires SAE will use ht3 or tac2. Little confusing but channel 3 on the radio is the 2nd tac.
 

tbendick

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There is talk of new radios I think there is a rfi going out soon.
Motorola has a new radio coming out that will be designed for fireground use. It's a version of the new apx. Ems has been doing some upgrades to the 5000.

Don't think this has anything to do with dispatch but time to look for a new radio. There over 10years old now and taking beating.
 
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