Federal VHF Band Plan

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JASII

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I know that this has been discussed in the past, but I want to see what others are hearing around the country. Are you finding that there is more compliance with the Federal VHF band plan now or are the agencies all over the place as far as what frequencies are used as input and which are repeater outputs? From my perspective, with the 9 mHz offset on UHF, it seems like more users on UHF are compliant with that band plan. I understand that there is no standard offset on VHF, like there is on UHF, but still it seems like a lot of outputs are on 162.0500-166.4875. Are you guys finding that certain agencies are better about compliance than others? I would think that when they switch to P25 that they would comply with everything.

Federal VHF/UHF Channel Plans - The RadioReference Wiki


Federal VHF Channel Plans


162-174 MHz

NTIA Manual Chapter 4 Section 4.3.7

Government land mobile channels are normally on 12.5 kHz steps (162.05, 162.0625, 162.075 ...) in NFM, P25, or other digital voice modes.
No standard offset.
There are other unpaired single frequencies in other parts of the band that are not specified in the manual.
Use of the band 162-174 MHz by the military agencies is limited to non-tactical or intra-base radio operations.

162.0500-166.4875 Mobile/repeater input
166.5000-169.5000 Unpaired single frequency systems
169.5125-173.2000 Base/repeater output
173.4000-173.9875 Base/repeater output
 

ecps92

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Some Agencies - Yes
Some Agencies - Nope

This is for both the VHF and UHF Bands. I still know of UHF Repeaters (not those with exemptions due to interference) not using the 9 Mhz offset (DEA still here in New England is one)

I know that this has been discussed in the past, but I want to see what others are hearing around the country. Are you finding that there is more compliance with the Federal VHF band plan now or are the agencies all over the place as far as what frequencies are used as input and which are repeater outputs? From my perspective, with the 9 mHz offset on UHF, it seems like more users on UHF are compliant with that band plan. I understand that there is no standard offset on VHF, like there is on UHF, but still it seems like a lot of outputs are on 162.0500-166.4875. Are you guys finding that certain agencies are better about compliance than others? I would think that when they switch to P25 that they would comply with everything.

Federal VHF/UHF Channel Plans - The RadioReference Wiki


Federal VHF Channel Plans


162-174 MHz

NTIA Manual Chapter 4 Section 4.3.7

Government land mobile channels are normally on 12.5 kHz steps (162.05, 162.0625, 162.075 ...) in NFM, P25, or other digital voice modes.
No standard offset.
There are other unpaired single frequencies in other parts of the band that are not specified in the manual.
Use of the band 162-174 MHz by the military agencies is limited to non-tactical or intra-base radio operations.

162.0500-166.4875 Mobile/repeater input
166.5000-169.5000 Unpaired single frequency systems
169.5125-173.2000 Base/repeater output
173.4000-173.9875 Base/repeater output
 

bailly2

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of course there has always been usss repeaters on 164-167mhz. fbi chicago is using 170.35 and
167.3375 as repeater inputs according to the wiki
 

ecps92

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What wiki ?

I Could not find 170.3500 or 167.3375 in the RR Wiki under FBI
lots of USFS and others.

of course there has always been usss repeaters on 164-167mhz. fbi chicago is using 170.35 and
167.3375 as repeater inputs according to the wiki
 

SCPD

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West Texas and new mexico it's half and half. I noticed the newer p25 frequencies in use are in compliance but not the analog.
 

bailly2

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somebody posted 170.35 as the imput to 169.95 in chicago (events g3, g4), and 167.3375 as the input to 170.725 in chicago (a2 primary repeater)
 

ecps92

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So it is not in the Wiki

Where is/was the link ??

Most folks get confuzzled with Linked Networks when they hear the 2-3 repeaters linked and think the 167.3375 repeater is the input, when it is not

somebody posted 170.35 as the imput to 169.95 in chicago (events g3, g4), and 167.3375 as the input to 170.725 in chicago (a2 primary repeater)
 

bailly2

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saw it here
wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/FBI_Frequencies_and_Database_Listings

how do you tell which one is the input?
 

Squad10

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167.3375 is not the input to 170.7250, it is a repeater output. The input to 170.7250 is 163.8750. During the 1970s, 167.3375 was the input to 163.9875 referred to as Blue (system) Channel 1.

170.3500 is not, and, was never a repeater input. It is a repeater output.
 

bailly2

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ok. thanks. i don't think i've ever picked up a repeater input channel after 15 years of listening, thought it might have been because they were moving the inputs amongst the outputs.
 

ecps92

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Lots of listening. Patience, Notes and monitoring.

Try it with your local conventional Police/Fire/EMS
listen on one radio to the Repeater output, while listening to the Repeater input.

You will hear a Repeater Tail when they unkey, but not on the input.
The input will be weaker (signal)....it takes patience but you will learn the differences

saw it here
wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/FBI_Frequencies_and_Database_Listings

how do you tell which one is the input?
 

SCPD

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looking for new NIFC freqs they are some from Fed pool any info would be great
I wrote and now maintain the Wiki page nd5y posted the link to. The page lists what has been derived from documents or human sources I keep in touch with. When you refer to the "Fed pool" I believe you are talking about the current procedure used on a lot of incidents. The incident may need frequencies assigned and nearby incidents have used all of the standard NIFC frequencies, that or interference on some of the NIFC frequencies requires the use of different frequencies. Each comm unit leader carries a highly confidential CD showing the frequencies both assigned and unassigned for the federal government nationwide. Most have been assigned, but might not be used currently. This situation varies depending on the location. What isn't being used in one locale may be the main frequency used on a repeater network for an agency in another locale.

The comm unit leader looks at the CD to find unused federal frequencies in the area of the incident. They contact the local National Forest, National Park Service, BLM, U.S Fish and Wildlife type interagency dispatch center to request a temporary and often a one time use authorization to use one or more frequencies on the incident. The dispatch center then passes the request to the Geographical Area Coordination Center (GACC) it is located in. If the frequency(s) is/are not on a limited list of frequencies that have pre-season authorizations for the GACC they pass the request to the National Interagency Fire Center. The duty communications officer can authorize the frequency's use or might have to suggest other frequencies due to some information received that may affect use of the requested frequencies. Suggested frequencies or authorization for those requested get passed down to the incident.

The important factor in these situations is authorizations are temporary, cover a specific area and can change from year to year or even in the same year depending on the agency the frequency is assigned to.

Thus trying to collect a list of these frequencies to try on other incidents is likely to be futile. Some people have posted lists with other command frequency pairs that are not on the list shown on the wiki page. They list commands 16, 37 and others when the confirmed list only includes Command 1-6 and 8-12. The authorization for command 7 was withdrawn a few years ago and hasn't been replaced with a new one.

I haven't come across these command channels on any official list I've managed to get my hands on or included in the information I get from human sources. I wonder if these use some of the temporary authorizations and have only been heard in limited areas. I need to contact the RR members who provided them for additional information.

I hope this information is helpful for you.
 

SCPD

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Compliance with the new band plans by federal land management agencies is better on the 406-420 federal UHF band than it is on the federal VHF band. Most of what I've seen use the lower frequency as the output or downlink and the input or uplink is 9 MHz higher. I've done some frequency searching where this is not the case. I think compliance is better on UHF as these agencies use this band for repeater and remote base linking, not for handheld and mobile use. Reprogramming and installing new equipment is easier and faster than reprogramming dozens of mobiles and handhelds. The easy stuff usually gets done first.

Recently assembled hardware and changes in frequencies resemble the frequency use on most existing systems. The output frequency is lower than the input. When I first came across the band plan I thought the agencies were just going to flip the frequencies as far as the input and output. I was prepared for almost every agency doing this at the same time. I'm glad I haven't held my breath. It appears that none of the agencies are doing this or are planning on same. I'm going to reexamine the information I have to verify that if I get some time to do so. If I find any agency systems that have complied I will post the info here.
 
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I know that this has been discussed in the past, but I want to see what others are hearing around the country. Are you finding that there is more compliance with the Federal VHF band plan now or are the agencies all over the place as far as what frequencies are used as input and which are repeater outputs? From my perspective, with the 9 mHz offset on UHF, it seems like more users on UHF are compliant with that band plan. I understand that there is no standard offset on VHF, like there is on UHF, but still it seems like a lot of outputs are on 162.0500-166.4875. Are you guys finding that certain agencies are better about compliance than others? I would think that when they switch to P25 that they would comply with everything.

Federal VHF/UHF Channel Plans - The RadioReference Wiki


Federal VHF Channel Plans


162-174 MHz

NTIA Manual Chapter 4 Section 4.3.7

Government land mobile channels are normally on 12.5 kHz steps (162.05, 162.0625, 162.075 ...) in NFM, P25, or other digital voice modes.
No standard offset.
There are other unpaired single frequencies in other parts of the band that are not specified in the manual.
Use of the band 162-174 MHz by the military agencies is limited to non-tactical or intra-base radio operations.

162.0500-166.4875 Mobile/repeater input
166.5000-169.5000 Unpaired single frequency systems
169.5125-173.2000 Base/repeater output
173.4000-173.9875 Base/repeater output
Some Agencies - Yes
Some Agencies - Nope

This is for both the VHF and UHF Bands. I still know of UHF Repeaters (not those with exemptions due to interference) not using the 9 Mhz offset (DEA still here in New England is one)
Could either of you tell me what it means by "Unpaired single frequency systems". I dont understand. I tryed and Google it and search in the Wiki and found nothing.
 

ecps92

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A Pair = Two
ie: Input and Output aka Repeater

UnPaired aka Single Frequency = Simplex aka Direct , no Repeater


Could either of you tell me what it means by "Unpaired single frequency systems". I dont understand. I tryed and Google it and search in the Wiki and found nothing.
 

ecps92

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Don't assume an agency is using the published NTIA band plans, as there are plenty of Legacy plans still in play as agencies migrate to this new format.

The only confirmation is actual monitoring, over a long (more than just days, weeks) period of time.

Thank you Bill :D. You just helped me with a Freq I am listening too.
 
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