Follow on to the post titled FHP which I was in the process of hijacking, so I have started this one as a follow on.
Thanks for the link with the USC for telecommunications---
Its an interesting topic, perhaps adequately beaten to death previously, but here's my two cents worth.
The thread more-or-less started with the question "Can you buy a scanner to receive FHP etc?" which in my opinion generally receives the answers: A) No scanner will receive it, or B) No scanner will receive it nor will there ever be a scanner that will, or C) No scanner will receive it, nor will there ever be a scanner that will, and if there were, it would be illegal. I agree there is no scanner today, I disagree there will never be one, and I have my doubts that when the day comes, it would be illegal.
I guess my bottomline premise is this: if it were (or in the future becomes) possible to decypher encrypted comms, through techniques that are developed and marketed without having violated technology laws (i.e. no patent infringement etc) then it would not be illegal to develop, sell, buy or possess such capability. And at that point, though it is arguably illegal to LISTEN to the comms using the legal capability, it is certainly unenforceable...
Its just a matter of time. My reasoning is as follows:
You need two things- the algorithm and the key. As for the algorithm, I believe there are enough people out there with knowledge of and access to the techniques and codes that algorithm design or theory is going to naturally leak into public domain. Even if they are proprietary and covered by NDAs, for example, there will be enough personnel turnover that clever folks can eventually probably re-engineer them legitimately. You know- if the secret recipe slips out of the kitchen one ingredient at the time, then no one person is responsible for violating the law, and the hackers just slowly put the recipe/puzzle back to gether. Its inevitable.
As for the keys, the odds are far too long to think you could randomly find the key, or write an algorithm to decypher the key itself, but if someone gave you the key, then the overall challenge is really just reversing the algorithm. It doesn't take too many disgruntled radio techs, or just corporate ignorance or carelessness to let those keys slip out. How many folks have access to the FHP key, I wonder? Not hundreds, but probably dozens (whether they realize it or not). Those leaks might violate employers NDAs, but with the proliferation of anonymously posted "stuff" on the internet, might not eventually be too hard to find. I realize all I say is VERY difficult (but not implausible), but I don't think to this point in my post it represents anything that is clearly illegal.
And remember, and this is important.... there is nothing analogous here to DoD/military encryption technologies or laws/policies. In the DoD scheme, encryption of classified info, where both the "thing" being encrypted AND the key and algorithms (and hardware) are themselves classified. Major espionage laws come into play for tinkering or revealing such things. The underlying "data" in play here, the local PD comms, for example, are NOT classified; the algorithm is at best a patented trade secret, and the key is probably just some local departments sensitive info.
So if a hobbiest could obtain "algorithm" softare that is legitimate, that doesn't break the law (that I can find). And if the hobbiest had access to keys... those two things are not illegal. Combining them together to sit in the privacy of his home, and listen to encrypted comms is arguably not illegal.
I say NOT illegal because I claim under my scenario, that the algorithm and key that I have obtained are "readily available to the general public". No laws were broken to independently develop/produce or sell them (or by me to buy/obtain them), so they are legitimately readily available to anyone. (They may be complicated, they may be expensive, they may be awkward to install and use, but they ARE readily available to anyone who wants them, and is willing to go through the trouble to use them, and that is the legal test). So provided I can prevail in my arguement that the comms meet paragraph 2 (g) (ii) (II) of the code, they are exempt from the statue and not illegal.
So like the AK-47 used to rob a bank, the gun manufacturer is not at fault; and like software used to download copyrighted music, the shareware developer is not at fault; and like Florida mobile scanner laws (which are in practice unenforceable), or blocking cell phone coverage from scanners (which can be circumvented by buying a European model on Ebay), the law will not stop it.
An interesting analogy is to "Google" satellite TV descramblers.... take a look. That's someone - actually LOTS of "someones" - who have figured out and overcome encryption. Perhaps not nearly as robust, and perhaps much more free-market demand (incentive), but the point is... tell a hacker he can't do something, and watch him do it!. Here a are products that are clearly illegal (I guess- you are circumventing legitimate commerce to avoid monthly fees) yet is readily available. Decoding comms is much less of a legal slippery slope. The underlying comms are not classified or proprietary (in fact, I think by most reasonable standards they are public record), and you would not be "stealing" service from anyone (like the satellite TV hackers).
I guess I don't envision a large company like Uniden selling a decryption capable radio soon, but I still think its just a matter of time before some hacker will be on the internet selling aftermarket software that will decode the stream. Then get the key for your department from your buddy on PD whose brother in law is the radio tech etc etc etc and you're set.
Its a cat and mouse game, and the mice are currently playing "catch up". Its just a matter of time!
Happy scanning
Thanks for the link with the USC for telecommunications---
Its an interesting topic, perhaps adequately beaten to death previously, but here's my two cents worth.
The thread more-or-less started with the question "Can you buy a scanner to receive FHP etc?" which in my opinion generally receives the answers: A) No scanner will receive it, or B) No scanner will receive it nor will there ever be a scanner that will, or C) No scanner will receive it, nor will there ever be a scanner that will, and if there were, it would be illegal. I agree there is no scanner today, I disagree there will never be one, and I have my doubts that when the day comes, it would be illegal.
I guess my bottomline premise is this: if it were (or in the future becomes) possible to decypher encrypted comms, through techniques that are developed and marketed without having violated technology laws (i.e. no patent infringement etc) then it would not be illegal to develop, sell, buy or possess such capability. And at that point, though it is arguably illegal to LISTEN to the comms using the legal capability, it is certainly unenforceable...
Its just a matter of time. My reasoning is as follows:
You need two things- the algorithm and the key. As for the algorithm, I believe there are enough people out there with knowledge of and access to the techniques and codes that algorithm design or theory is going to naturally leak into public domain. Even if they are proprietary and covered by NDAs, for example, there will be enough personnel turnover that clever folks can eventually probably re-engineer them legitimately. You know- if the secret recipe slips out of the kitchen one ingredient at the time, then no one person is responsible for violating the law, and the hackers just slowly put the recipe/puzzle back to gether. Its inevitable.
As for the keys, the odds are far too long to think you could randomly find the key, or write an algorithm to decypher the key itself, but if someone gave you the key, then the overall challenge is really just reversing the algorithm. It doesn't take too many disgruntled radio techs, or just corporate ignorance or carelessness to let those keys slip out. How many folks have access to the FHP key, I wonder? Not hundreds, but probably dozens (whether they realize it or not). Those leaks might violate employers NDAs, but with the proliferation of anonymously posted "stuff" on the internet, might not eventually be too hard to find. I realize all I say is VERY difficult (but not implausible), but I don't think to this point in my post it represents anything that is clearly illegal.
And remember, and this is important.... there is nothing analogous here to DoD/military encryption technologies or laws/policies. In the DoD scheme, encryption of classified info, where both the "thing" being encrypted AND the key and algorithms (and hardware) are themselves classified. Major espionage laws come into play for tinkering or revealing such things. The underlying "data" in play here, the local PD comms, for example, are NOT classified; the algorithm is at best a patented trade secret, and the key is probably just some local departments sensitive info.
So if a hobbiest could obtain "algorithm" softare that is legitimate, that doesn't break the law (that I can find). And if the hobbiest had access to keys... those two things are not illegal. Combining them together to sit in the privacy of his home, and listen to encrypted comms is arguably not illegal.
I say NOT illegal because I claim under my scenario, that the algorithm and key that I have obtained are "readily available to the general public". No laws were broken to independently develop/produce or sell them (or by me to buy/obtain them), so they are legitimately readily available to anyone. (They may be complicated, they may be expensive, they may be awkward to install and use, but they ARE readily available to anyone who wants them, and is willing to go through the trouble to use them, and that is the legal test). So provided I can prevail in my arguement that the comms meet paragraph 2 (g) (ii) (II) of the code, they are exempt from the statue and not illegal.
So like the AK-47 used to rob a bank, the gun manufacturer is not at fault; and like software used to download copyrighted music, the shareware developer is not at fault; and like Florida mobile scanner laws (which are in practice unenforceable), or blocking cell phone coverage from scanners (which can be circumvented by buying a European model on Ebay), the law will not stop it.
An interesting analogy is to "Google" satellite TV descramblers.... take a look. That's someone - actually LOTS of "someones" - who have figured out and overcome encryption. Perhaps not nearly as robust, and perhaps much more free-market demand (incentive), but the point is... tell a hacker he can't do something, and watch him do it!. Here a are products that are clearly illegal (I guess- you are circumventing legitimate commerce to avoid monthly fees) yet is readily available. Decoding comms is much less of a legal slippery slope. The underlying comms are not classified or proprietary (in fact, I think by most reasonable standards they are public record), and you would not be "stealing" service from anyone (like the satellite TV hackers).
I guess I don't envision a large company like Uniden selling a decryption capable radio soon, but I still think its just a matter of time before some hacker will be on the internet selling aftermarket software that will decode the stream. Then get the key for your department from your buddy on PD whose brother in law is the radio tech etc etc etc and you're set.
Its a cat and mouse game, and the mice are currently playing "catch up". Its just a matter of time!
Happy scanning
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