Fight Against Encryption

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LetterX

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Would it hurt to add an hour or more delay to your streaming audio? People
could still get to hear the audio your so proud to provide. But the police would be even more happy in
that it was not real time.

An hour or more? Why would that much delay be necessary? The way I understand it, the point of adding a delay is to prevent "the bad guys" from being notified that the police are on to them, and to avoid giving away the location of law enforcement units to those trying to evade. Wouldn't a few minutes be sufficient?
 

JoeyC

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You are NEVER going to get people to agree on a suitable delay time, 5 minutes, 15 minutes, and hour? Everyone is have their reasoning no matter what the length. The best and only solution is to stop internet streaming of all law enforcement PERIOD. This can only be accomplished by the streamers. I don't see the website taking a stand on this as there is the almighty dollar involved.
 

tampabaynews

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The best and only solution is to stop internet streaming of all law enforcement PERIOD. This can only be accomplished by the streamers. I don't see the website taking a stand on this as there is the almighty dollar involved.

I agree, not telling anyone how to run their business, but If RR lost most of their scanner users due to encryption, there would be a huge cut in profits. Axing the feeds will give RR some extra years AND might slow down the number of agencies going encrypted.

I know if my area went encrypted I'd have no use for my scanners or this site, and I know many people feel the same way.
 

JoeyC

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It will take quite a number of years for all around encryption to plant itself giving RR plenty of years of revenue. Plus, there are always fire feeds. However, we are doing a great job right now developing the foundation for future law enforcement communications. :mad:

As I believe Bolt21s original purpose on this thread was NOT to discuss streaming - I will gracefully bow down and say nothing more on the matter.
 

WX4JCW

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Ok i guess i will Chime in,

When Orlando Police went Encrypted there was a meeting just prior, well i wouldnt call it a discussion it was merely Val Demmings advising the Media and some scanner hobbyists that "The Train is on the track and no one is going to stop it" of the 4 News Channels only one WFTV even argued the point, however they are repaying Chief Demings by keeping on her back everytime one of her officers screws up which is sometimes on a regular basis, so WFTV is out to punish her for this decision, But Demmings does not care one bit, We tried to get her to Broadcast a "Hotshot" Channel in the clear, NOPE, an internet feed with a 10 Minute time Delay, NOPE, weve tried everything short of demanding her resignation, i guess thats next cause she is incompetent. and OPD has made it blatently clear they could give a rats *** about recieving help from its citizens.

this is a Florida problem but it is also a city county issue, there are not enough people to fight this issue. the Politics are too strong and our feelings on the matter are too divided as evidenced by this thread, and with all due respect WS4VT is too slanted towards the subject to offer a constructive opinion.

i am afraid the ball is rolling and unless we do unite in the common cause and quit bickering it will be pointless.
 

Baylink

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You can bad mouth people all day long for the real truth being said. Bottom line here is just that the simple issue of having access to real time activity from the streaming is in fact forcing just this type of pressure on the public safety agencies. The more real time audio that is available, the faster you will see these agencies go fully encrypted.

{{citation-needed}}

You're *really* saying that internet streams of monitored LEO comms are giving them hives, and *direct reception of those same comms on scanners*, they don't give a crap about? Really? Cause that's what it *sounds* like you're saying, and I don't buy that for 30 seconds.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Go.
 

tampabaynews

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Baylink, you have to admit that online feeds make LE audio available to much more people than scanners themselves.

Good post, WX4JCW.
 

Baylink

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"Potentially available", sure.

But I suspect comparing the number of scanners sold in any given year to the number of people who *regularly* listen to streamed scanners in a year *in their local area* would be quite instructive (where, by "be instructive" I mean "support my side of the argument" :).
 

LetterX

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"Potentially available", sure.

But I suspect comparing the number of scanners sold in any given year to the number of people who *regularly* listen to streamed scanners in a year *in their local area* would be quite instructive (where, by "be instructive" I mean "support my side of the argument" :).

I suspect you're very much wrong, especially if you factor in how many people who buy scanners use them to *regularly* listen to LE.
 

Baylink

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I suspect you're very much wrong, especially if you factor in how many people who buy scanners use them to *regularly* listen to LE.

Expand? You believe the people buying scanners are using them to listen to the dogcatcher?

What's the "new digital sales" vs "new analog-only sales" ratio like?
 

LetterX

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Expand? You believe the people buying scanners are using them to listen to the dogcatcher?

What's the "new digital sales" vs "new analog-only sales" ratio like?

I think people buy scanners to listen to all kinds of things. Fire, Nascar, railroad, ham radio, etc. I also think a lot of people buy scanners, then rarely use them at all. This is all really irrelevant to the argument, though. Fact is, internet streams open up listening to anybody, scanner or not, and that's a much bigger demographic than scanner owners. More importantly, the people LE are worried about, "the bad guys," can listen with any smart phone, and that's their real concern.
 
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I think people buy scanners to listen to all kinds of things. Fire, Nascar, railroad, ham radio, etc. I also think a lot of people buy scanners, then rarely use them at all. This is all really irrelevant to the argument, though. Fact is, internet streams open up listening to anybody, scanner or not, and that's a much bigger demographic than scanner owners. More importantly, the people LE are worried about, "the bad guys," can listen with any smart phone, and that's their real concern.

You are correct, feeds will ruin the hobby completely. Everybody just has their heads to far up their asses to realize it yet. Thanks feed providers you are the best. I wonder what will happen to this site when everything goes encrypted or on a system such as SLERS which you cant monitor.
 

scaninnyc

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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." -Ronald Reagan
 

jcardani

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The original intent of this thread was to elicit discussion on how to convince Florida state lawmakers to write legislation to make the encryption of basic routine law encorcement transmissions illegal. This thread went way off topic.
 

scaninnyc

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The original intent of this thread was to elicit discussion on how to convince Florida state lawmakers to write legislation to make the encryption of basic routine law encorcement transmissions illegal. This thread went way off topic.

Agreed...

When the OP decided to try to squelch out the input he didn't like (from states he don't like) and others started taking shots at feed providers who are doing nothing wrong and providing a legal service, it sure did go wrong.

Perhaps a site that relies on revenue from subscribers that want and listen to LE feeds is not the place to be bashing the people that want and provide LE feeds?

:EDIT:

Local Home Owner Associations are A good place to start looking for support in your endeavor (if you are serious about it). This site has a good amount of HOA listings and it's free.

http://www.aboutmyhoa.com/states/openfla.htm
 
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tampabaynews

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Are you kidding me? RR does not *rely* on feeds. There are other very apparent and smart ways that Blanton makes his money. Feeds weren't always on this site and he did well off before the merge with Scan America.

We all have different reasons for using this website, and for me, it's not the feeds. It's the database and discussion, and I will gladly keep my premium subscription active as long as my finances allow. We all love this site, that's why were here.

We are tackling some of the issues that are causing encryption, the biggest is the "service" some of us are providing whether some of us want to admit it or not. We're not talking about shutting RR down.

I don't see how people can assume that steaming law enforcement traffic is legal. I remember a year or so ago some agency in CA claimed copyright violations on a feed, and it was removed. I guess I should provide a service and steam HBO to everyone...

It is a touchy subject but needs to be discussed. Just because it has reached 7 pages and people feel uncomfortable reading it doesn't mean that it's dead and needs to be locked. I applaud the mods for giving us the opportunity to discuss this.

If you don't like the thread, then stop looking at it. My dad always said "If it hurts, don't do it."
 

scaninnyc

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Any business that puts a product on the shelf "RELIES" on it's sale. You just choose to assign a priority to each aspect of his business based on your agenda.

As for your comparing streaming HBO to police feeds that are in fact public domain and free...

Well, are you really a News person? :D
 
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tampabaynews

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Isn't that against the rules for a RR stream? I thought only dispatch and general business talkgroups are permitted, no?

That's true, but it happens anyway. According to failed logic by other posters, I guess their argument would be it's public domain.

Here's a really good thread on time delays and where legit sounding law enforcement members talk about phone apps http://forums.radioreference.com/live-audio-administration/194528-audio-delay-3.html#post1419401.

I love the idea of time delays, 10 minutes sounds great.
 
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tampabaynews

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Any business that puts a product on the shelf "RELIES" on it's sale. You just choose to assign a priority to each aspect of his business based on your agenda.

As for your comparing streaming HBO to police feeds that are in fact public domain and free...

Well, are you really a News person? :D

Congratulations, you found a mistake. You feel better about yourself now?
 
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