Finding radars on HF?

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hawkmothdelta

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Recently I've become somewhat fascinated with the sounds of radars/ionospheric sounders on the HF spectrum... I understand they often hop between frequencies, but the manner in which they do so has been unclear to me through the bit of digging I've done so far.

So maybe this is a bit of an odd question, but does anyone have tips on finding these signals more effectively? Is there a listing somewhere of the frequencies each radar tends to hop between and the timetables they operate on, or is finding them really a matter of trial and error? Any info would be much appreciated, thank you!
 

popnokick

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Only thing that comes to mind immediately is to ask if you are using a receiver with a spectrum display such as an AirSpy, HackRF, SDRplay or similar. It is much easier to search broad frequency swaths and more readily identify the spectral "signature" of these types of signals when you can view their spectral display.
 

Token

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It is important to understand why HF radars change frequency the way they do. This is how, in part, they control what area they are looking at. Typically, they may be able to control angle in Azimuth to direct a beam a specific direction. But they generally have no, or very little, control of angle in Elevation. So instead they use changing propagation conditions and frequency selection to control where their RF comes down onto the Earths surface or a desired piece of air space.

How do they know which frequency or frequency set to use at any given time? Most HF radars either have a dedicated ionsopheric test tool or mode, or they have access to such real time data. Some appear to have logic that tells them "this frequency range at this time of day, for these desired results", and you will find these radars jumping around, hitting multiple frequencies for short periods, until the arrive at a combination that works, then they may stay on that freq for a while.

Most frequency agile HF radars do not have defined frequency channels they use. That means you will not find them on specific frequencies. At best each specific type of radar will have specific frequency ranges that they may operate in. Combine that with typical propagation and typical target sets for each specific radar and you can start to get an idea of what frequency ranges to look for each radar in at specific times of day.

So, no real way to predict frequencies, other than in a very general way.

But, most radars are clearly identified on a waterfall or spectrum display. Once you learn what they each look like you can easily and quickly find them on wideband displays, allowing you to tune to each quickly after it changes freqs or as it moves to new frequency sets.

An important fact is that there is a LOT of variability. Different radars, even with the same mission sets, may act and react very differently. They may also use radically different techniques or waveforms, so that they can be extremely varied in appearance and sound.

T!
 

dlwtrunked

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Recently I've become somewhat fascinated with the sounds of radars/ionospheric sounders on the HF spectrum... I understand they often hop between frequencies, but the manner in which they do so has been unclear to me through the bit of digging I've done so far.

So maybe this is a bit of an odd question, but does anyone have tips on finding these signals more effectively? Is there a listing somewhere of the frequencies each radar tends to hop between and the timetables they operate on, or is finding them really a matter of trial and error? Any info would be much appreciated, thank you!

I have a nice talk that would interest you but at 2.7 MB, I cannot put it here. Send me a message with an email address. At some point I want to add non-US ones but having been trying to find the time to do that for 3 years. Finding the signals is only reasonable done with an SDR showing waterfalls of at least a couple MHz.
 

majoco

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I use a Winradio G33DDC where I can show a spectrum up to 8MHz wide. Linear frequency sweeps show up regularly as a diagonal line across the screen with a very quick burst of a rising or falling tone as the signal goes through the passband - I'll try to get a screenshot........ here..... 3 at onceSpectrum.jpg
 

dlwtrunked

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I use a Winradio G33DDC where I can show a spectrum up to 8MHz wide. Linear frequency sweeps show up regularly as a diagonal line across the screen with a very quick burst of a rising or falling tone as the signal goes through the passband - I'll try to get a screenshot........ here..... 3 at onceView attachment 122707

Those are ionosondes testing propagation rather that HF radars themself. Many HF radars (including the USN OTHR-B) do have an ionosonde at the same location.
 
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