Finding to install ham gear, antenna, to power cords, bonding

[mmckenna]

@ mmckenna

Motorola shops will be a good option. Just be careful, anything with that brand name on it will be expensive. But a decent radio shop can handle what you need and they should do a good job, if you are willing to pay for it. Law enforcement/public safety agencies understand the need for good installs, and will have a shop they use. Follow that path and you'll find what you need.

As for the install business...
Hams are traditionally a cheap bunch. If you look at many ham installs, you'll see bungee cords, velcro, double sided tape. You'll see cigarette lighter plugs and mag mount antennas.
A lot of hams are completely happy with halfway installs like that, and don't want to change. Too many are downright afraid to do a proper install, drill holes for mounting, do permanent antenna installs. And they often won't ask for help outright. Some will, but it's rare around these parts.
Maybe with a good shop nearby, you'd get some interested in doing it right.
But it's hard work. Spending all that time under the dashboard is young persons work. I still do it occasionally, but I'm sore for a few days afterwards.

Commercial installs would probably be a better focus for a shop. At least you'd get people that would be willing to pay to do the install correctly. Some truckers are willing to pay to do things right. If you get into the off road crowd, you may also find a market for better installs. They'll at least admit what they don't know and will be more likely to pay for help.

But, you'll be happy with a good install. I've always done my own and never regretted doing it right. I've had to fix a lot of work that professional shops have done on our police cars at work.
Whatever you do, avoid the stereo/alarm shops. Most of them don't understand two way radio and do pretty sloppy work.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Some auto insurance policies don't cover theft of equipment in a vehicle unless permanently mounted.

 

[MjrSinkhole]

Speaking of wire size and what is appropriate. I see blanket recommendations for 6WG. This may or may not be correct. There are quite a few variables when it comes to deciding the "proper" size wire you actually need. A radio like an Icom IC-F8101, for example, uses a 30A fuse. Unless your power wire is over 16ft. You are okay using a 10 AWG OFC wire for that single device. If you are planning on running other devices as well you will need to have a rough idea of how many devices and what the devices are fused at. For example, I am running a President Andy II in my truck and plan to add a Wouxon KG-1000G. The Andy is fused at 5A and the KG-1000G uses a 15A fuse. With this total of 20A Max and knowing my distance from my battery to my radios is roughly 12ft run I would run a 10AWG OFC wire. 10AWG is sufficient for up to 35A at that length. When shopping for wire always buy OFC (Oxygen Free Copper). Oxygen free is important to keep the wire from corroding. Silver-tinned OFC is even better. NEVER use CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum). It is simply unsafe. Aluminum can NOT carry the current that Copper can. Also, keep in mind that certain gauges of wire are much more common than others. It is very easy to find OFC 10AWG, 8AWG, 4AWG, and 1/0AWG. But 2/0AWG, 2AWG, and 6AWG are not commonly used for most kinds of up-fitting.
When it comes to installation always protect your wires. When I do an install any wire under the hood get wrapped in exterior TESA tape, then covered with split loom, then completely wrapped in 3M Super 33+ Electrical Tape. Interior wires vary depending on where the wires run. Sometimes it is just PET braided expandable sleeving, with shrink wrap over the ends. other times it is just wrapped in TESA interior tape, and in areas, with a high chance of chaffing, it is again covered in split loom and then wrapped in Super 33+.
Below is a handy chart for 12V DC systems.

 

[mmckenna]

The charts are a good option for most. There are formulas that allow you to figure in loop length, allowable voltage drop and current capacity. It's a bit more exact than a chart and allows you to make some informed decisions.

#6 may be overkill for many hobby installs, but having the additional capacity has some value. When doing installs, the high cost item is the labor. Having to repull a conductor to add additional loads means wasted time and wasted materials, as well as downtime for the user.
And I've never had an issue finding #6. Ordering in quantity ahead of time is a way to address this. Amazon has it, also.

In addition to your advice, I'd add that using the correct SAE rated conductors is necessary if you are doing this for a living. There are SAE rated cables that are designed for exposure to high heat found in an engine bay, as well as the possibility of oil/grease/fuel exposure. Making sure you get a high strand count cable is a good idea, also. Lower strand count cables have larger individual conductors that make the cable stiff and more prone to issues with vibration and movement. High heat rated split loom or other protective covering is important as well.
Some of the installs I see sometimes look like someone ran to Home Depot and grabbed whatever they could. Improper connectors, wrong crimp tools, wrong wire. It usually results in failure that take a unit out of service.

 

[MjrSinkhole]

The charts are a good option for most. There are formulas that allow you to figure in loop length, allowable voltage drop and current capacity. It's a bit more exact than a chart and allows you to make some informed decisions.

#6 may be overkill for many hobby installs, but having the additional capacity has some value. When doing installs, the high cost item is the labor. Having to repull a conductor to add additional loads means wasted time and wasted materials, as well as downtime for the user.
And I've never had an issue finding #6. Ordering in quantity ahead of time is a way to address this. Amazon has it, also.

In addition to your advice, I'd add that using the correct SAE rated conductors is necessary if you are doing this for a living. There are SAE rated cables that are designed for exposure to high heat found in an engine bay, as well as the possibility of oil/grease/fuel exposure. Making sure you get a high strand count cable is a good idea, also. Lower strand count cables have larger individual conductors that make the cable stiff and more prone to issues with vibration and movement. High heat rated split loom or other protective covering is important as well.
Some of the installs I see sometimes look like someone ran to Home Depot and grabbed whatever they could. Improper connectors, wrong crimp tools, wrong wire. It usually results in failure that take a unit out of service.

I posted the chart as a starting guide. These charts are generally more than accurate enough provided you use the correct chart. The chart needs to be for the correct voltage in the system and the correct type of wire. Also, I totally agree that the correct rating of wire should be used and a high strand count is preferred.
Speaking of connectors. You mentioned distribution blocks earlier. May I point out to those that are not in "the know", if you are using a distribution block, fuse holder, or any other connector that uses a set screw to hold the wire make sure you use Ferrules on the wire. Just sliding the wire in and cranking the screw down can damage the wire. A ferrule will protect the wire from damage as well as prevent that annoying and dangerous wild conductor strand. Here is a link to a video that does a good job of explaining Ferrules and how to properly use them. While the video is focused on car stereo amplifiers, this applies to any connection of this style whether in a car, truck, RV, bus, camper, boat, or even a bench.

 

[mmckenna]

Yep.
Those charts usually include a note that tells you what voltage drop it takes into account. For some applications, dropping a volt or two isn't a big deal. For other applications, you want to consider it carefully.

The ferrules are always nice. I use them at work on the few devices I have that use connectors like that. It's usually low amp draw devices. Tinning the connections and flattening them can also work in a pinch. The larger stuff is all lugs with either one or two holes. For many hobbyists, it's expensive to invest in the parts and tools to do this right, and often corners are cut. I've seen some downright scary installs done by ham radio operators.

 

[prcguy]

Motorola Solutions will be pricy. You could probably drive here to So Cal where I would probably spend the day installing your stuff for free then drive home cheaper than what a Motorola shop will charge.

 

[MjrSinkhole]

Yep.
Those charts usually include a note that tells you what voltage drop it takes into account. For some applications, dropping a volt or two isn't a big deal. For other applications, you want to consider it carefully.

The ferrules are always nice. I use them at work on the few devices I have that use connectors like that. It's usually low amp draw devices. Tinning the connections and flattening them can also work in a pinch. The larger stuff is all lugs with either one or two holes. For many hobbyists, it's expensive to invest in the parts and tools to do this right, and often corners are cut. I've seen some downright scary installs done by ham radio operators.

You would probably have an aneurism if you saw some of the things I have seen in my 30+ years installing mobile electronics in cars, trucks, RVs, buses, boats, and heavy equipment. Downright scary. It's amazing some of these vehicles have not burned to the ground.

 

[slowmover]

Blue Sea/MARINCO
1/2-V Drop at Silent DK (3%)



This chart has worked for me to meet that standard in big trucks with 20’ plus power circuits (Positive Length + Negative Length).

4-AWG a couple of times, but 8-AWG & 6-AWG have been easiest to get to distribution point on shorter runs.

I moved to Anderson Power Poles a couple of years ago to facilitate the inevitable removal of a radio rig from each big truck.


Distribution became much easier as well.



MBRP fuse meant no splices in power


Am working on my pickup where (of two power cords) the lighter one being just over 10’ that 10-AWG is easy to use, IMO.

And easy to use with a RigRunner



The working assumption was 20A draw and fifteen feet (even though that is a bit higher than both fused component limit and total length). Similar to example given in Post #23.

Otherwise, . . after 8-AWG life gets harder.

.

 

[slowmover]

Forgot to add that the 10-AWG will get upgraded to 6-AWG at some near future point.

 

[kb4mdz]

You can also look at the Eaton/Bussman 15600 series of fuseholders;

Can get in 2,4,6,8,10, and I think 12circuits. Common tie point for power in, ATC fuse holders, 1/4" tab outputs, can get with an additional ground wire pad & stud. I used them in redoing fire station triplight cabinets.

 

[AK9R]

1/4" tab outputs

That's my issue with these fuse holders. I don't have faith that a 1/4" tab connection is a reliable, long-term solution.

 

[k7ng]

timbrusky,
In case you work up the nerve in the future to do your own installs, or to evaluate someone else's install, especially if you paid for it:
I've never been confident of Powerpoles in a mobile environment but I admit I do use them here and there but not everywhere in my home ham station. I quit using the 1/4" tabs w/ push-on connectors in mobiles too. I don't have any issues with the ATO/ATC fuses in mobile installs, but if they go under the hood they have to be in a sealed box or a waterproof connector that presses on the top of the fuse to keep it secure. If you must butt splice, get crimp/solder/seal types and the right tool to crimp them. They cost real money but they're worth it. In fact I use the appropriate crimp/solder/seal terminals everywhere in mobile installs.

I haven't often used #6 wire but I do if it's necessary. Fire command vehicles and LE vehicles get it. I use #8 for single-radio (or one real radio and a CB) installs. The company radios only draw 14A max even with the remote head. For HF installs, with or without other radios, certainly mmc kenna isn't overdoing it with #6.

Absolutely make sure about what kind of insulation the wire of choice has. 300-degree and oil resistant are good starters. I have seen some wire, probably ordered from someplace whose name begins with 'A' which is not only about 1.5 mm undersized (makes for miserable crimps) but the insulation must be made from candle wax because it would soften on a hot day, much less under the hood on an afternoon drive in AZ. And I abandoned doing business with the place that used it, too.

 

[timbrusky]

I went a different direction for now, decided to go build a base back up first, So i purchased my old radio i once had twice, Yaesu 847, then bought a Aston 70amp with meters and power poles, then a LDG 1000PROII auto antenna turner, i bought my old turner i had also, its a Tokyo hy power HC2000, In great shape, 8 out of 10 rating, put up a wire antenna for now, its not as high as i would like it to be, but for now its 25feet up. I passed my general first Saturday in July, yesterday was my first time making contact on HF, my friend Ive known for 33 years, always talks about me, i checked into the 3.945 net lastnight, i got wide open hugs and happiness all around. It was exciting for me. I was told if i get the antenna i build a lot higher i would be a huge station, and i was just running bare foot, at 50 watts on 80 meters last night. I think a few friends of mine who live 2 1/2 hours away, might help me get me up higher, and even come up with a better design of the antenna i just threw up. I will come to the mobile setup later, i did go with the NVO mount for my pickup trick for my icm 52a, i dont leave in the vechile, its mostly in the house, i have a MFJ mount that has magnet that i use in the house and gets out pretty well for being as a mobile antenna, around 35 miles, I have a comet for the pickup on that NVO mount, works great. I bought some chocks and a coax noise filter from Palomar Engineers, works great drop the RF noise from 9+ over 20, to now 7. I'm sure i can get it down to a reasonable level to 1-3 maybe. Any suggestions on the RF noise level i can get it down further. My girlfriend is study her Techinican calss and has my general class study i used by No-NONSENSE, its works great for me, i went with the audio version of NO-NONSENSE. Have a great day. hopefully might hear from anyone on this post a contact on 3.945 in the evening time, i'm available SUNDAY MONDAY, works takes most of my time, as im a fuel tanker hauler for LOVES TRUCK STOP in fond du lac, but go where i'm needed at night at one of 7 loves stores.

73's
TIM, N2TIM