• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Five Years for programing Radio

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n4voxgill

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Saturday, July 15, 2006
GRAND RAPIDS -- A former state police civilian employee was found guilty Friday of felony charges that he compromised the state's 800 megahertz radio system by giving unauthorized users access to the network. James Brunk, 46, of Cadillac, faces five years in prison when sentenced next month in Kent County Circuit Court. He and three others were charged by Attorney General Mike Cox in December 2004 for roles in a scheme that could have allowed others to tap into the secure system. The other three suspects, James Werner, of Rockford, Andrew Felde, of Grand Rapids, and former Walkerville Fire Chief Jerry Frick earlier pleaded guilty to related charges. Werner also was a state police employee.
 

car2back

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HMM... this needs to be posted as a sticky in the trunking forum!

"How can I program the XTS I bought on Ebay to recieve the police department?" :roll:
 

seamusg

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n4voxgill said:
Saturday, July 15, 2006
GRAND RAPIDS -- A former state police civilian employee was found guilty Friday of felony charges that he compromised the state's 800 megahertz radio system by giving unauthorized users access to the network. James Brunk, 46, of Cadillac, faces five years in prison when sentenced next month in Kent County Circuit Court. He and three others were charged by Attorney General Mike Cox in December 2004 for roles in a scheme that could have allowed others to tap into the secure system. The other three suspects, James Werner, of Rockford, Andrew Felde, of Grand Rapids, and former Walkerville Fire Chief Jerry Frick earlier pleaded guilty to related charges. Werner also was a state police employee.
It was a little bit more than programing a radio.
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-34739_34811-106788--M_2004_12,00.html
 

flyingwolf

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The charges allege that Felde obtained either stolen or illegally manufactured Motorola radios. Werner and Brunk, who were Michigan State Police civilian employees, aided Felde in his efforts to program the radios to access the 800 MHz system by providing him with otherwise unobtainable computer software and templates for the radios so that they would operate on the system. Frick, who is the chief of the Walkerville Fire Department, then purchased at half-price three of these radios from Felde, in part with grant money obtained by submitting a fraudulent invoice to Mason/Oceana 911.
Not only did they use stolen radios and equipment, thay also illegally sold them to other people.
 

car2back

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n4voxgill said:
Your article from the atty general says that he programed the radios.
It looks like he programmed them, they other gentlemen were responisble for obtaining stolen merchandise and fraud.... hey, atleast this Fire Chief can say he was dedicated to making his Fire dept's comms "interoperable":lol:
 

seamusg

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n4voxgill said:
Your article from the atty general says that he programed the radios.
You didn't read the whole article. He programed the radio's the accessed the state computer system for the radio system and registered the radios then submitted a bill to the county for them at full price.
 

KE4ZNR

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My interest lies with the following section of the linked article:

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] "In today's atmosphere where homeland security is paramount, law enforcement agencies must be able to communicate without the possibility that others can eavesdrop and hear communications to which they should not be privy," Cox said. "The 800 MHz system is designed so that law enforcement and other governmental agencies can communicate with each other without concern that lawbreakers and others can overhear those conversations. In this case, efforts were made to compromise the system. It is fortunate these efforts were stopped before any damage to the system occurred," Cox added.


Ok....I agree with the above if the only talkgroups being talked about are the encrypted talkgroups on the system...but if they are speaking of just the digital talkgroups then the above is very misleading and the gentleman speaking does not know what he is talking about....anyone with a Pro96/396T can monitor the non-encrypted talkgroups on the system....just wanted to point out the paranoia that exists in non-informed government officials...I am going to give Mr. Cox the benefit of the doubt and hope he is speaking about the encrypted talkgroups...

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seamusg

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KE4ZNR said:
My interest lies with the following section of the linked article:



Ok....I agree with the above if the only talkgroups being talked about are the encrypted talkgroups on the system...but if they are speaking of just the digital talkgroups then the above is very misleading and the gentleman speaking does not know what he is talking about....anyone with a Pro96/396T can monitor the non-encrypted talkgroups on the system....just wanted to point out the paranoia that exists in non-informed government officials...I am going to give Mr. Cox the benefit of the doubt and hope he is speaking about the encrypted talkgroups...

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One of them accesed the system in Lansing and programed the radio ID's into the system, MPSCS has a user fee - thus theft of services and billed the county under a federal grant for the radios - thus uttering and publishing and accesed the state computer system - thus computer fraud.
 

KE4ZNR

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seamusg said:
One of them accesed the system in Lansing and programed the radio ID's into the system, MPSCS has a user fee - thus theft of services and billed the county under a federal grant for the radios - thus uttering and publishing and accesed the state computer system - thus computer fraud.
I am not debating that part of the situation...please go back and read the quoted section of the article....it has nothing to do with what you are saying....thanks!
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

seamusg

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KE4ZNR said:
I am not debating that part of the situation...please go back and read the quoted section of the article....it has nothing to do with what you are saying....thanks!
Marshall KE4ZNR
You only read some reporters summary of the court case, I remember the origional story with all the details but WOODTV does not have an arcive beyond 14 days. I did read your quoted article and question the reporter as to telling the whole truth, which they never do.
If you read the link I gave you would see they were charged and convicted of more than programing a radio.
 

KE4ZNR

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My Question had to do with the quoted piece of the article above which had NOTHING to do with the Programming only the RECEPTION of the system...not trying to start an argument just bringing up a side issue that was created out of all this...that public officials think that just because they use a "digital" format that their transmissions are "secure" and therefore cannot be monitored...which is bogus unless the Talkgroup is encrypted or in a Proprietary format such as MA Comm Provoice....alot of the system being talked about is NOT encrypted and my point was that the quote above was misleading and not accurate if the talkgroups being referenced were not encrypted....again my point had nothing to do with the actual illegial programming and I am not arguing about that...these guys deserve what they got....I just have problems with the above quote from the article....
 

pinellasfirefighter

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we had a medic here in my county trying to sell one of our radios on ebay. which that radio would have been able to be used to hear everything from fire , ems , police , fhp at the time well what i`m trying to say it would have picked up everything because our whole county in trunked on the same system. needless to say p.c.s.o. detectives bought the radio from him on ebay... lol now he is behind bars and out a job ever again in the ems field.
 

seamusg

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KE4ZNR said:
My Question had to do with the quoted piece of the article above which had NOTHING to do with the Programming only the RECEPTION of the system...not trying to start an argument just bringing up a side issue that was created out of all this...that public officials think that just because they use a "digital" format that their transmissions are "secure" and therefore cannot be monitored...which is bogus unless the Talkgroup is encrypted or in a Proprietary format such as MA Comm Provoice....alot of the system being talked about is NOT encrypted and my point was that the quote above was misleading and not accurate if the talkgroups being referenced were not encrypted....again my point had nothing to do with the actual illegial programming and I am not arguing about that...these guys deserve what they got....I just have problems with the above quote from the article....
The only FACT in the article you quoted was that he was found guilty the rest is fiction. It had nothing to do with encryption or anything like that. only buying stolen or used radios and reprograming them and selling them to the county as new by gaing access to the states radio system computer. They did not program them to just receive but to be used by the FD and transmit on the system. Unauthorized access to a computer system is a crime and submitting false bills to the county as an employee is a crime.
 

seamusg

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n4voxgill said:
do you think any of this make an difference to these guys as they serve their time.
They will never be able to work for a government agency again and can't collect their retirement.
 

grem467

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you people love grasping at straws huh?

NO, receiving the system on a motorola ISNT illegal, PROGRAMMING it on the system without authorization IS. I dont care if you paid full retail for your CPS, Cable AND XTS radio, once you bootleg a system key and programmed the TRS information you have committed the crime of "unauthorized network access" which is the common thread of EVERY one of these cases that gets posted here. Plus add in the transmission of AFF packets (assuming you are on an ASTRO25 radio, or have the radio programmed as smartzone or auto-aff)

If you are stupid enough to get caught with a bootleg system key, coupled with a pirated copy of CPS, then thats just icing on the cake for motorola.
 

seamusg

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grem467 said:
you people love grasping at straws huh?

NO, receiving the system on a motorola ISNT illegal, PROGRAMMING it on the system without authorization IS. I dont care if you paid full retail for your CPS, Cable AND XTS radio, once you bootleg a system key and programmed the TRS information you have committed the crime of "unauthorized network access" which is the common thread of EVERY one of these cases that gets posted here. Plus add in the transmission of AFF packets (assuming you are on an ASTRO25 radio, or have the radio programmed as smartzone or auto-aff)

If you are stupid enough to get caught with a bootleg system key, coupled with a pirated copy of CPS, then thats just icing on the cake for motorola.
It's more icing on the cake for the state when they try to collect grant money for it
 

KE4ZNR

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seamusg said:
The only FACT in the article you quoted was that he was found guilty the rest is fiction. It had nothing to do with encryption or anything like that. only buying stolen or used radios and reprograming them and selling them to the county as new by gaing access to the states radio system computer. They did not program them to just receive but to be used by the FD and transmit on the system. Unauthorized access to a computer system is a crime and submitting false bills to the county as an employee is a crime.
So this is fiction???? Cox did not say the following that the article attributed to him??

Again I quote from the originally linked article:

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] "In today's atmosphere where homeland security is paramount, law enforcement agencies must be able to communicate without the possibility that others can eavesdrop and hear communications to which they should not be privy," Cox said. "The 800 MHz system is designed so that law enforcement and other governmental agencies can communicate with each other without concern that lawbreakers and others can overhear those conversations. In this case, efforts were made to compromise the system. It is fortunate these efforts were stopped before any damage to the system occurred," Cox added.


Again Please note that the above quote has nothing to do with programming only reception....I give up...apparently I am the only one interested in the HEAR COMMUNICATIONS part of the quote....for the last time I am not debating wheather what the guilty parties did was legal or not...it was freakin' illegal....I am debating weather Mr. Cox quoted above knows what the heck is the difference between a digital talkgroup and an encrypted talkgroup :roll:
Never mind....just let the uniformed believe no one can listen to anything on their system while us happy scanner buffs sit back with Pro96's or 396T's and Listen to anything unencrypted :cool:
73's
Marshall KE4ZNR
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