FL SLERS - EDACS

[SCPD]

From what I have seen on Unitrunker, I can't tell if it is a software malfunction or if what shows up is the info the CC is actually broadcasting and the software can't decode it properly do to whatever enc, ect. they have enabled.

I don't know what this means. Could you go into some detail? What do you see? What did you expect?

Also, if you can send me a decode log, I can get a much better idea.

I don't OWN a scanner. But I have plenty of ProVoice-enabled radios. P7100s, M5300s, P7300s, all with ProVoice.

Elroy - I don't know this for certain but I've heard the signal polarity on conventional ProVoice is inverted from trunked ProVoice. If you program a conventional channel into your Harris/MA-COM radio, you might not hear anything even when the traffic is in the clear.

 

[productionguy85]

I don't know what this means. Could you go into some detail? What do you see? What did you expect?

First off, I don't expect much from any Harris system, but that's besides the point right now. The biggest thing I see is that, no System ID comes through, meaning that whenever you go to a different site, EDACS96 (letter) Limbo comes up. So for the 4 sites I can RX where I am, instead of 1 system of multiple sites, I have multiple systems that show up as EDACS96 D Limbo, EDACS96 E Limbo, EDACS96 F Limbo and so I on, I even named and Labels the first site thinking, it would follow and it still creates completely new Systems for each site.

 

[SCPD]

There's a reason for that. EDACS has no system identity - ESK or not. You get a site number and active control channel number - and nothing more. Each time the program discovers a new EDACS signal - it has to guess whether the signal you're receiving on site 01 LCN 01 matches a previously logged site or is completely different.

The only way to resolve this ambiguity is the control channel frequency. In some cases - the program can lift the frequency from the signal receiver. Otherwise, you must manually enter the frequency. If you see "Frequency needed!" in the site window - that's why.

Determining whether two sites belong to the same system is a manual process. Once you're satisfied that two sites are peers on the same system, you can use the consolidate feature to combine them.

 

[DisasterGuy]

Just to clarify, you can't just enable ESK just as you can't simply enable encryption. The EDACS Security Key is just that, a crypto key that is loaded from a smart card.


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[productionguy85]

There's a reason for that. EDACS has no system identity - ESK or not. You get a site number and active control channel number - and nothing more. Each time the program discovers a new EDACS signal - it has to guess whether the signal you're receiving on site 01 LCN 01 matches a previously logged site or is completely different.

The only way to resolve this ambiguity is the control channel frequency. In some cases - the program can lift the frequency from the signal receiver. Otherwise, you must manually enter the frequency. If you see "Frequency needed!" in the site window - that's why.

Determining whether two sites belong to the same system is a manual process. Once you're satisfied that two sites are peers on the same system, you can use the consolidate feature to combine them.

Thanks for the schooling of EDACS. So basically, an EDACS system is "stupid" compared to a "smartnet/zone" in that an EDACS system has no separating identity from the next EDACS system?
So, if a radio was programmed for EDACS "A" and worked completely, ect. Would it also work on EDACS "B" system provided "B" was programmed the exact same as "A"? And the radio would never know the difference?

 

[DisasterGuy]

The chances if identical frequencies, site IDs, talkgroup IDs and LIDs is remote to say the least.


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[productionguy85]

The chances if identical frequencies, site IDs, talkgroup IDs and LIDs is remote to say the least.


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Thats what I am asking, IF everything was the exact same between A and B. Then the radio wouldn't know the different, since there is no system ID?

 

[DisasterGuy]

In the case of an EDACS Standard or Networked Standard system, yes. In the case of ESK, no. With ESK an already highly improbable situation would be an astronomical improbability because the ESK is a randomly generated 64 bit key.


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[SCPD]

Thats what I am asking, IF everything was the exact same between A and B. Then the radio wouldn't know the difference, since there is no system ID?

I can't say for certain but I suspect your assertion is true - provided both systems use the same color code. There are only 7 or 8 color codes.

Since we've gone hypothetical, here's a question for DisasterGuy:

Support you have an ESK key, programming cable, programming software w/ USB keyfob, and an ESK enabled Harris radio. You have these things because you're authorized to program radios for a system like SLERS.

What technology (ESK or otherwise) prevents you from programming a radio for a completely different system?

 

[DisasterGuy]

I'm not sure I fully understand the question. Nothing would prevent you from adding an additional system. What the ESK will do is ensure that only a radio with the correct ESK can be programmed onto the system.


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[bravo14]

I have a few radios. On the PSR-800 I put in the freq's for my area. When I get a CC I lock it out and see if the DUMP file will will show the correct LCN I get 00-08 when I put the order in the 436hp it get 2-3 bars and the 396xt (which I have to put lcn 01-09) holds on the freq don't hear nothing at all on both radios. The psr800 dump file showed a vc talkgroup 00219 didn't hear nothing on the 396xt and 436hp. On the 396xt it shows the sysid.

 

[ElroyJetson]

From a technical standpoint, what ESK does is to change the "language" of the control channel. If I remember what I read about it correctly, it works out that certain bits within the control channel data stream are changed which will make a regular EDACS radio (or non-ESK-capable scanner) think it's not hearing valid EDACS control channel data. And it works out that there are exactly 64 "flavors" of ESK, no more and no less. Six bits within the control channel data stream are altered according to the value of the ESK code in use.

Is that encryption of the control channel or not? With only 64 possible values, if you were to describe it as encryption, it is very weak encryption. However, if you have a Harris radio and aren't able to write your own radio firmware to find the right ESK value and use it to monitor the system, you are just as out of luck as you can be.

Even if you have RPM/ProGrammer, and an ESK feature enabled radio, you only have two pieces of the puzzle. You'd need smart access card readers and the appropriate smart cards that are properly programmed and authorized for you to use them on the designated system. Odds are that you will not be getting that unless it's in your job description and you are working for a system maintenance organization that is responsible for the system in question. Which means, in Florida, you'd have to get a job with Williams Communications or Communications International, or possibly working for the FHP in a position of authority and responsibility, or working for the State of Florida in a similar position that requires you to have access to this stuff.

Otherwise, you're almost certainly out of luck.

 

[Rbp1414]

Any way to monitor this system now that Provoice scanning is possible? Realize there is no getting past the encryption issue, but I don't see the system even being available to monitory in my 536.

 

[EricCottrell]

Any way to monitor this system now that Provoice scanning is possible? Realize there is no getting past the encryption issue, but I don't see the system even being available to monitory in my 536.

Hello,

There are several threads from several 436/536 users in FL monitoring SLERS. FHP and Law Enforcement are encrypted, but some other agencies are in the clear.

73 Eric

 

[bravo14]

Any way to monitor this system now that Provoice scanning is possible? Realize there is no getting past the encryption issue, but I don't see the system even being available to monitory in my 536.

You'll need the paid update for provoice. Only thing you will hear is EMS or FD depends where you live at. Close by me I hear Okaloosa and Walton County FD/EMS I don't hear them everyday.

So far this is up to date

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=1678

 

[uulc]

You'll need the paid update for provoice. Only thing you will hear is EMS or FD depends where you live at. Close by me I hear Okaloosa and Walton County FD/EMS I don't hear them everyday.

So far this is up to date

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=1678

I live in Tampa area and all of the Hillsborough County is EDACS and HCSO is the ones that use Digital channels.

Here Pro-Voice is a good choice as a lot of the specialized groups talk everyday on them.