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fleeing

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landonjensen

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is it true that if run from a officer once you have been arrested, and you flee from them
they are authorized to shoot you?
 

RolnCode3

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Depends on a lot of things, but the short answer is: NO. The old "fleeing felon" rule was overturned in courts a long time ago...so it's not a "freebie"...it would have to be articulable as necessary because of some present danger.

Now, attempting to escape from a correctional facility (at least here in CA) is a different issue...and deadly force can be used.
 

kd7rto

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RolnCode3 said:
Now, attempting to escape from a correctional facility (at least here in CA) is a different issue...and deadly force can be used.
The identity of the escapee is known, and he is not likely to be armed. I don't see the justification for deadly force.

However, let's say someone just pulled an armed robbery, his identity is unknown, and he is likely to get away with the crime unless the victim initiates force (such as getting in a car and mowing the perp down). Now I realize that our current laws do not allow this kind of action, and I ask the question, why not? I think that deadly force would be more easily justified in this scenario, than against a fleeing convict.
 

RolnCode3

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Well, there's a reason there's guard towers at the prison...and they don't fire warning shots. But, as I sit here, I have difficulty locating any section of CA law...so, I'm putting faith in it being a case decision.
 
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kd7rto

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RolnCode3 said:
Well, there's a reason there's guard towers at the prison...and they don't fire warning shots. But, as I sit here, I have difficulty locating any section of CA law...so, I'm putting faith in it being a case decision.
I'm not questioning the fact that the law allows them to shoot, I'm questioning whether that law is reasonable.
 

dren

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In VA, correctional officers can shoot someone trying to escape once they cross the fence. The person (s) escaping have been judged felons in court so they're deemed a threat to society. I think it's perfectly reasonable, but that's just me. They're not running to go tiptoe through the tulips and frolick in the surf. I spent many a night in a tower watching for some of them scumbags to try and escape.

n6orz, you'd better not assume that someone locked up in a prison is unarmed. You can just about bet your bottom dollar they have a knife or possibly some type of home made firearm on them. If you assume prisoners are unarmed, you're dead wrong. I saw many ingenious weapons removed from cells and body cavities. Who would have thought you could make a 30' rope out of Saran wrap?
 

pfish

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RolnCode3 said:
Depends on a lot of things, but the short answer is: NO. The old "fleeing felon" rule was overturned in courts a long time ago...so it's not a "freebie"...it would have to be articulable as necessary because of some present danger.

Now, attempting to escape from a correctional facility (at least here in CA) is a different issue...and deadly force can be used.
I was told by a Lieutenant here that the "fleeing felon" rule still applies. I've also failed a FATS (Fire Arms Training Simulator) simulation for not shooting the suspect as he fled the scenario. I still agree with you, the case would have to be pretty extreme for the officer to choose deadly force.

The scenario on the FATS practice was that I was just pulling up to a gas station and about to get out of the car, I was about 40ft from the business and S1 walked out with a gun, pointing the gun to V1's head. The suspect removed the gun from V1's head, and the girl escaped from S1. S1 ran back inside the business, and the scene ended. I was told that I could have shot the suspect due to the fleeing felon rule, since he could have gone inside to take more victims hostage.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, the hostage never got away, the suspect turned his back when entering back into the store, with the hostage in front of her. It was a very risky shot as you could see both heads.
 
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RolnCode3

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pfish said:
I was told by a Lieutenant here that the "fleeing felon" rule still applies. I've also failed a FATS (Fire Arms Training Simulator) simulation for not shooting the suspect as he fled the scenario. I still agree with you, the case would have to be pretty extreme for the officer to choose deadly force.

The scenario on the FATS practice was that I was just pulling up to a gas station and about to get out of the car, I was about 40ft from the business and S1 walked out with a gun, pointing the gun to V1's head. The suspect removed the gun from V1's head, and the girl escaped from S1. S1 ran back inside the business, and the scene ended. I was told that I could have shot the suspect due to the fleeing felon rule, since he could have gone inside to take more victims hostage.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, the hostage never got away, the suspect turned his back when entering back into the store, with the hostage in front of her. It was a very risky shot as you could see both heads.
The "fleeing felon" rule is WAY gone...see the Tennessee V. Garner that was posted above...that's the exact case that did away with it.

In your instance, you have an armed subject who presents an immediate public safety threat. Shooting was perfectly appropriate even after he released the hostage. That is perfectly allowable...you just can't shoot a fleeing felon solely because he's believed to have committed a felony and is now fleeing...has to be something else there.
 

JHaislet

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I think the fleeing felon rule is sometimes confused by many due to the dynamic nature of a suspect committing a felony and then fleeing. One must separate both the actus reus and mens rea.

Is the armed suspect fleeing only to elude law enforcement with no other intentions or is the armed suspect actively seeking an opportunistic victim to car-jack and continue his spree of murder and destruction? Only incident specific clues could even begin to shed light on the suspects mental desires.

According to precedent, shooting a fleeing felon is usually permissible to prevent immediate, grave bodily harm to society. However, the definition of immediate is correctly left to the interpretation of a reasonably prudent person. Depending on the circumstances, immediate could conceivably be anywhere from a few minutes to countless hours.
 

N4UYV_Al

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dren said:
I saw many ingenious weapons removed from cells and body cavities. Who would have thought you could make a 30' rope out of Saran wrap?
K Dren, with these 2 in the same paragraph, I'm trying hard NOT ta draw the picture in my head!!!....lol
 

dren

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If you can imagine it, it's been done. I'll help you out. What would two cellmates do with peanut butter? A buddy of mine found 2 guys engaged in extracirricular activities involving peanut butter. I don't know if it was creamy or crunchy though. ;)

Have Michael Schofield try that one. I'll bet the producers of that show have taken a few prison tours to get their ideas.
 
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