FM Communications / Bush Electronics - New Site in WNY

[k2hz]

Which might be a clue that the mystery Site 5 is probably in FM's area, not Bush's.

Andy, have you checked the 420 MHz block? I assume yes, just asking for due diligence lol

It also should be in FMs area because the FM and Bush are not "neighbors". There is a major gap between the Buffalo and Syracuse systems in the Rochester and Western Finger Lakes area. I suspect the reason Bush affiliated with FM is AAA Western NY is a major customer with central dispatch for Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse. I believe dispatch is in Syracuse. Bush has a system compatible with FM in Buffalo but nothing in Rochester. The Rochester AAA tows are on a mix of UHF DMR and LTR systems. The rural areas used to use pagers but I think everybody is now MDT on either the trunked system or cellular.

As Andy stated, the FM licenses are a mess of legacy LTR, Passport and Conventional. Bush seems to have all sites consolidated on one recent license.

 

[dave3825]

No. It's not a DFA system. Don't make me regret explaining DFA to you by now thinking that every NXDN system you come across is DFA!

C'Mon bro, I know its not which is why I said "some nxdn" in post 4.

So I guess it's just Nxdn DFA systems that list the freq as thats what my screenshot is from.

NXDN DFA systems are few and far between, the majority still use predetermined channels that need to be known before the system can be tracked properly.

Right, but only the DFA list the neighbor and the active cc freq together, like in my screen shot? Or can non DFA do the same?


Either way, it was nice in DSDPlus just having to enter the cc freq and nothing else at all for it to rack properly on the DFA system by me.

 

[GTR8000]

Right, but only the DFA list the neighbor and the active cc freq together, like in my screen shot? Or can non DFA do the same?

In the absence of any other data known to DSD+, it can only list the frequency if it's a DFA system. Now, if you already have the other sites and their frequencies populated in the DSDPlus.frequencies file, it will probably show the frequency because it's already aware of the CH ID (aka LCN) to frequency mapping, but only because you told it what they were ahead of time.

 

[ak716]

Which might be a clue that the mystery Site 5 is probably in FM's area, not Bush's.

Andy, have you checked the 420 MHz block? I assume yes, just asking for due diligence lol

I swept everything. I played around with some gain to see if it was just super weak, and I was not getting it. I've come up empty. I checked earlier today, and still nothing.

And is everyone on the latest release of DSD+ Fast Lane 2.395 before we compare notes and draw any conclusions?

Yes lol.

It also should be in FMs area because the FM and Bush are not "neighbors". There is a major gap between the Buffalo and Syracuse systems in the Rochester and Western Finger Lakes area. I suspect the reason Bush affiliated with FM is AAA Western NY is a major customer with central dispatch for Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse. I believe dispatch is in Syracuse. Bush has a system compatible with FM in Buffalo but nothing in Rochester. The Rochester AAA tows are on a mix of UHF DMR and LTR systems. The rural areas used to use pagers but I think everybody is now MDT on either the trunked system or cellular.

As Andy stated, the FM licenses are a mess of legacy LTR, Passport and Conventional. Bush seems to have all sites consolidated on one recent license.

That was my other logic. I just "tried" it again. Site 1 is coming in super weak for me right now (not surprising, that's normal for me). In the .exe activity, I picked out "Neighbors=3", but I can't get clean decoding of it right now. Site 2 is reporting clear as day that Site 5 is a neighbor.
Fresh off the air -

2023/04/03 23:25:31 Current network: 157 FM Communications
2023/04/03 23:25:31 Current site: 157-2 Tonawanda - Erie
2023/04/03 23:25:31 Current site: L157-2 Tonawanda - Erie
2023/04/03 23:26:12 L157-2 neighbor: Site L157-1; CC=3 454.55 Attica - Wyoming
2023/04/03 23:26:12 L157-2 neighbor: Site L157-3; CC=24 424.975 South Wales - Erie
2023/04/03 23:26:12 L157-2 neighbor: Site L157-5; CC=41

My logic is that any of the Bush sites are probably out of range from being a neighbor to FM, especially their Site 2. For it to be a neighbor of Site-2, I'd think it would have to be here in WNY.

Also, digging through my DSDPlus.event file from 3/31/23, when I initially found it, it looks like I jumped the gun with saying its a neighbor to Site 1. I can't find the record of that information. I'm guessing that I saw that same "-" you did and came to a conclusion.

It would be nice if it was DFA. Mobiletech is if I recall correctly, right?

My logic of Orleans Co, or out that way, is Orleans is like a dead zone normally for me. On good days, I can get *some* Orleans Co frequencies, but hardly ever the Mobiletech VHF-Hi NXDN. Its basically all flat from here to Orleans Co (ish). The Medina Mobiletech site, on a good day/night is just a blip in the spectrum, nothing decodable (on the contrary, I can occasionally pull in the Scio and Andover sites lol). I figure going to UHF isn't going to help my reception range if I can't even get VHF-Hi from there normally (I know, antennas and repeaters can all be running at different powers, Medina is only 25 watts and blah blah blah). But the same with the Orleans sites for the P25 system. They usually are super weak for me. Some days, I can get it, but it's rare, or late at night when the bands are quiet and whatnot.

Regardless, I'll keep looking.

 

[k2hz]

I swept everything. I played around with some gain to see if it was just super weak, and I was not getting it. I've come up empty. I checked earlier today, and still nothing.


Yes lol.

That was my other logic. I just "tried" it again. Site 1 is coming in super weak for me right now (not surprising, that's normal for me). In the .exe activity, I picked out "Neighbors=3", but I can't get clean decoding of it right now. Site 2 is reporting clear as day that Site 5 is a neighbor.
Fresh off the air -

2023/04/03 23:25:31 Current network: 157 FM Communications
2023/04/03 23:25:31 Current site: 157-2 Tonawanda - Erie
2023/04/03 23:25:31 Current site: L157-2 Tonawanda - Erie
2023/04/03 23:26:12 L157-2 neighbor: Site L157-1; CC=3 454.55 Attica - Wyoming
2023/04/03 23:26:12 L157-2 neighbor: Site L157-3; CC=24 424.975 South Wales - Erie
2023/04/03 23:26:12 L157-2 neighbor: Site L157-5; CC=41

My logic is that any of the Bush sites are probably out of range from being a neighbor to FM, especially their Site 2. For it to be a neighbor of Site-2, I'd think it would have to be here in WNY.

Also, digging through my DSDPlus.event file from 3/31/23, when I initially found it, it looks like I jumped the gun with saying its a neighbor to Site 1. I can't find the record of that information. I'm guessing that I saw that same "-" you did and came to a conclusion.

It would be nice if it was DFA. Mobiletech is if I recall correctly, right?

My logic of Orleans Co, or out that way, is Orleans is like a dead zone normally for me. On good days, I can get *some* Orleans Co frequencies, but hardly ever the Mobiletech VHF-Hi NXDN. Its basically all flat from here to Orleans Co (ish). The Medina Mobiletech site, on a good day/night is just a blip in the spectrum, nothing decodable (on the contrary, I can occasionally pull in the Scio and Andover sites lol). I figure going to UHF isn't going to help my reception range if I can't even get VHF-Hi from there normally (I know, antennas and repeaters can all be running at different powers, Medina is only 25 watts and blah blah blah). But the same with the Orleans sites for the P25 system. They usually are super weak for me. Some days, I can get it, but it's rare, or late at night when the bands are quiet and whatnot.

Regardless, I'll keep looking.

I agree with all of your logic. I suspect, as we have seen with new sites appearing on the NL for other area systems, the "site" may be either on a dummy load at the shop or not actually on the air but programmed only for network testing. Orleans County would be a likely priority for their major subscriber AAA. Orleans is mostly our of range for me.

 

[ak716]

Okay, I got a screaming signal on the Attica site tonight. It's displaying two neighbors in the DSD Event Log, but the bottom has the "-" for that last unknown third one. The DSD "data" is showing "Neighbors = 3".... so, still TBD but consistent with @k2hz findings too.