FM Communications/Bush Electronics (NXDN

R0am3r

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On 11-15-20 I submitted corrected LCNs to the Bush Electronics NXDN system in Onondaga County. The database has been updated with the following LCNs.

Frequency LCN RAN
451.887500 105 RAN 4
452.212500 106 RAN 4 Control Channel
452.362500 107 RAN 4
462.037500 108 RAN 4
* The FCC lists four other frequencies (class FB8), but I don't see them being used.

Yesterday I also submitted several talk groups to RR. Some groups are quite clear who they are, others are still unknown.
94 AAA WNY Car-Car
97 AAA CNY Car-Car
99 Bus/Transportation Service
100 Plow/Sander Business
140 Transportation Management Center (TMC)
143 Plow/Sander Business
146 Waste Management
151 Plow/Sander Business
162 Plow/Sander Business

TG 146 transmits their geographic coordinates, so you can track them with LRRP. TGs 101 and 102 are still unknown users. If anyone has updates/corrections, please submit them to RR.
 

andyk62990

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How ironic with the AAA stuff. On FM Communications NXDN 9600 TRS, TG 94 is AAA WNY, and all the RID's show as "WNY**####", and on 96, the few transmissions received, which also is AAA, come up as "CNY.**##" Nothing for nothing, I wonder if there is any system interconnection, with them appearing to both be small systems. Ill monitor the TG 96 on FM's system and see if I can start matching up some locations in the CNY area
 

k2hz

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"AAA Central and Western NY", which covers the Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse region, has a centralized dispatch facility, I am not sure where it is located or the distinction between the WNY and CNY aliases. Rochester area AAA contractors all have their own radio systems, on various trunked systems, usually with some type MDT dispatch for the AAA jobs and they use voice for their own jobs. "Care Care Plus" shops are AAA owned and operated.
 

R0am3r

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If anyone has a better idea for talk group naming conventions, please submit the changes. I picked WNY for the TG 94 name because of the radio IDs and they were chatting amongst themselves. Similar logic for TG 97. Maybe they should have simpler names like "AAA Ch 2" or something like that. More monitoring will be required.
 
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k2hz

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I have been using the radio alias like WNY whenever there is no more specific indication of the user name on NXDN systems.

You guys just clued me into something important. Both FM and Bush are System ID 157 so they are apparently affiliated and the TGs are not a coincidence.
 

R0am3r

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Quick note - the Control Channel changed for the Bush Electronics NXDN system. It was stationary all of last week. Today it moved to 451.8875 MHz. I'll wait a while before I submit the change to RR. There is a chance it rotates among the four frequencies.

Frequency LCN RAN
451.887500 105 RAN 4 CC
452.212500 106 RAN 4
452.362500 107 RAN 4
462.037500 108 RAN 4
 

k2hz

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I see Bush is Site 4 so it is part of the same System 157 as FM. Any frequency observed with CC activity should be submitted.
I just checked to see if I can hear the Bush CC but no luck. I wanted to see if I could compare the traffic to what I hear on FM Attica.
Wonder if GTR8000 wants to consolidate the systems in the RRDB? This seems to be independent of the other Bush systems but is an extension of the FM system to the Syracuse area.
 

andyk62990

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Not to split hairs here, especially over towing TG's, sounds like TG 94 is AAA WNY Towing Dispatch, as they keep getting tow request given out and talking back and forth. TG 95 seems to be another AAA WNY Towing TG, as the WNY units get a lot of affiliations to that one as well. I'll keep an eye on that stuff here and see if we can come up with some decent submissions to clear it all up, unless someone knows something more
 

k2hz

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The frequencies for Bush NXDN are the same as what was Site 4 of the Bush Passport system so at least that site is obviously deprecated for Passport use. Is there any indication the other 3 Passport sites are still active?

There is a pending modification on the Sentinel Heights NXDN/former passport site license WPVZ433 with a lot of changes driven by the fact that the old TV Ch5 tower is being demolished so Bush is moving to the tower across the road that I think is shared by all the Sentinel Heights broadcast and communications users. Bush is getting an increase in antenna HAAT from 207.1m to 228.5m so that should increase coverage.

I get marginal reception of the FM Communications Attica site and none of Sites 2 & 3. I get a good signal on the 454 frequencies but not on the 461 or 464 that have severe fading so I only hear some voice transmissions although I see the TG activity on the CC. It makes it difficult for me to sort out details about the users.
 

andyk62990

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I get marginal reception of the FM Communications Attica site and none of Sites 2 & 3. I get a good signal on the 454 frequencies but not on the 461 or 464 that have severe fading so I only hear some voice transmissions although I see the TG activity on the CC. It makes it difficult for me to sort out details about the users.
I'm sitting on Site 2 right now, loud and clear, Site 1 is hit or miss, weather dependent for me. Site 3 normally comes in good here. Regardless, no new neighbors on Site 2 and 3. I can't get Site 1 right now. If I do pull it in, I'd hope maybe a new neighbor would be there?
 

k2hz

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Definitely no new neighbors on Site 1 and Site 4 has no neighbors. Not unexpected since there is a big gap between 4 and the other sites so not really "neighbors".
 

R0am3r

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I checked the Bush Electronics Passport Pompey site frequencies and found a weak control channel on 464.4625 MHz. It is System ID 157, Site 006. I fed my SDS200 several of the Passport frequencies and am running the Analyze function. So far it has given me three LCNs (126, 127, and 128). My biggest challenge is the weak signals because of the distance and terrain. I believe Site 006 uses three frequencies because DSDPlus rotates through these channels and doesn't appear to hiccup on a missing frequency.

Frequency LCN RAN
463.9375 126 RAN 6
464.4625 127 RAN 6 Control Channel
463.2375 128 RAN 6

There are active users on this system. Talk Group 113 is used for school buses, but I don't know what district they belong to. I also found TG 8305 in my logs with a RID that says "Base". The signal is too weak to pick up anything else now.
 

k2hz

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So, it looks like Bush Pompey Passport is now part of the NXDN system. I checked the Homer and Niles frequencies and heard nothing. I normally can receive Niles sites on VHF but UHF is marginal. Homer sites normally marginal on VHF and nil on UHF. It seems logical that System 157 Site 5 could be The Bush Niles or Homer Passport sites. Maybe someone down that way will see this post and check it.

I am surprised you don't have a better signal from Pompey. The "Mt Sevier" site usually has fair to good coverage of the Rome area. Generally better than the Sentinel Heights site.

I think "TG8305" is probably a bad decode.
 

andyk62990

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So, I left DSD running for the last 24 hrs on Site 2, got a few more unknown TG's, but I was hoping for some smoking gun RID's, which wasn't the case.
 

R0am3r

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A couple of updates this morning.

TG98 - This is supposed to be Radio Techs. I watched this TG get rejected on Site 6 this morning. Is this a normal event? I always assumed the Radio Techs were superusers and could roam across the sites.

TG99 - I am now starting to think this is the Fayetteville Manlius School District. I heard several of the drivers referencing "returning to school" and making my "second run." FM was also a user of the older Passport system.

TG146 - Some of the Site 4 users attempt to roam to Site 6. The TG was rejected on Site 6.
 

k2hz

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From what I have seen on other systems, a site that has limited capacity may limit access to a few preferred TGs. Seems to be common during buildout and testing of a new site. Since these sites are not showing Neighbor Lists, they may be restricting site access while the system is under development. It will be interesting see if/when other sites and NLs appear.
 

k2hz

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I am hearing what appears to be a weak digital CC signal on the Bush Niles Passport 461.5375. It is way down in the noise and fading so no way to decode or even verify what type of system. Unless I catch some really strong ducting I will not be able to do anything with it. We really need someone in the Auburn/Ithaca/Cortland area to check the Bush Passport Niles and Homer frequencies to see if they are also converted to NXDN System 157.
 

MegaHertz315

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TG99 - I am now starting to think this is the Fayetteville Manlius School District. I heard several of the drivers referencing "returning to school" and making my "second run." FM was also a user of the older Passport system.
TG 113 is F-M CSD Buses. The schools they were mentioning were matching up with their district.

I would say TG 99 sounds more like a smaller scale bus service in & around Syracuse. Possibly Birnie? (not confirmed). Its not Durham & its not First Student, can rule those 2 out.

I am only getting 1 bar on 461.5375 (Niles) so sorry, not able to decode any information from that site.
 
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R0am3r

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I am only getting 1 bar on 461.5375 (Niles) so sorry, not able to decode any information from that site.
Is there any chance you are hearing the Oneida Madison School Cooperative MPT-1327 signal from Camden? This site use 461.5375 as their control channel and the tower site is up on Preston Hill above the village. The coverage is much further than the RR map shows.
 
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