Food For Thought!

[N1SQB]

At a meeting last night with officials "in the know" , I got some not-so-good news. First of all, there is a move already under way, with federal funds, to EVENTUALY change the entire STATE to the 700 mhz digital encrypted sytems that will be available. Now I realize this may be a LONG,LONG time before it ever takes place, but the money from the feds has already started to come in . First up will be systems / towns who already have digital systems running, thats no surprise. Statewide, the CSP will be the first. This is not expected to take too long because it would not take much to do given their already existing and well established system. Now, as I said before, this will take a LONG time to do so I am not putting this out there like a doomsday prophesy of any kind. I know better. I just want to share with all of you, where the thinking is going in this state. I know we will have many more good years of scanning left around here. The thing that got to me was that the talk is to get EVERYBODY on this. I mean Transportation,Police ,Fire,EMS, Parole,Probation,Corrections, everyone that has an active important role in the state. Its going to take them forever to achieve this so I for one am not going to start dumping radios or anything anytime soon. In fact, I am going to sell a few older ones to upgrade even more. I just want to pass this along to keep any and all interested, up to date.

Manny

 

[HarryWilly]

I might be able to understand the reasoning behind encrypting Police, especially with the sometimes sensitive data that is transmitted, along with the fact that there are departments in the nation that use technology, while unencrypted, cannot be decoded by consumer scanners.

However, I really see no point in Fire or just about anything else. Is it really necessary to be encrypting transmissions? With these new systems, the radios have to be affiliated so its not like joe schmoe can buy a radio of eBay and start transmitting causing interference. Technically everything is public record as well, so at some point people are able to get their hands on the audio transmitted - I really have a hard time seeing a point with encrypting transmissions.

All I know is it will be a while before agencies that rely on volunteers do away with open transmissions and simulcasts, especially because there isn't really good technology yet beyond Minitors to alert volunteers (which is really quite sad to be honest - I always thought there would be a solution based on MDC or something), and those volunteer agencies where members can have their own portables would need to keep open.

You hear the stories of how there are people out their who are shut out when a system gets converted to something like ProVoice (ick) and they are unable to listen to the devices that kept them company in their retirement years.

I think police should stick to keeping confidential info on MDT systems and all public safety agencies (except Federal governments because that will never happen) should be transmitting on protocols that can be decoded by technology made available for the public. Private sector is where closed source technologies like ProVoice which may never be reversed engineered should reside.

 

[N_Jay]

At a meeting last night with officials "in the know" , I got some not-so-good news. First of all, there is a move already under way, with federal funds, to EVENTUALY change the entire STATE to the 700 mhz digital encrypted sytems that will be available. . . .

Some people use the phrase "digital encrypted" when all they mean is "digital".

Some people "in the know" don't know the difference.
It only takes one person supposedly "in the know" misspeaking once to start the misunderstanding.

Not saying someone is not planning such, but the much higher likelihood (unless there already have the "encryption wants") is that it is just a digital system (most likely P25) (with encryption capabilities).

 

[N1SQB]

Some people use the phrase "digital encrypted" when all they mean is "digital".

Some people "in the know" don't know the difference.
It only takes one person supposedly "in the know" misspeaking once to start the misunderstanding.

Not saying someone is not planning such, but the much higher likelihood (unless there already have the "encryption wants") is that it is just a digital system (most likely P25) (with encryption capabilities).

Well, I hate to say it but it is 700MHZ digital encrypted. I specificaly asked that question. He mentioned the CSP who are already digital but not encrypted. This individual definitely knows what he is talking about.

Manny

 

[N_Jay]

Well, I hate to say it but it is 700MHZ digital encrypted. I specificaly asked that question. He mentioned the CSP who are already digital but not encrypted. This individual definitely knows what he is talking about.

Manny

Would be interesting to see.

1) has it been designed?
2) has it been bid?
3) is it in implementation?
4) is it to be an expansion of an existing system, or all new?
5) who "decided" it would be 100% encrypted?


I'll believe it when i see it.

 

[N1SQB]

Would be interesting to see.

1) has it been designed?
2) has it been bid?
3) is it in implementation?
4) is it to be an expansion of an existing system, or all new?
5) who "decided" it would be 100% encrypted?


I'll believe it when i see it.

From what I understand, it is all in the very early stages of planning. 15Million has already been given to start looking at this from a statewide basis. The first experiment if you will, is the CSP. They are already digital and statewide. By switching them to 700 mhz and then going full encryption, it gives them an inexpensive look at how that type of system would possibly work. Like I said on my OP, if and thats a big IF this gets on the ground and running, it will be a VERY long time before it affects us scanner users here in CT.

 

[N_Jay]

From what I understand, it is all in the very early stages of planning. 15Million has already been given to start looking at this from a statewide basis. The first experiment if you will, is the CSP. They are already digital and statewide. By switching them to 700 mhz and then going full encryption, it gives them an inexpensive look at how that type of system would possibly work. Like I said on my OP, if and thats a big IF this gets on the ground and running, it will be a VERY long time before it affects us scanner users here in CT.

So what it sounds like is NOBODY has decided that EVERYBODY will be encrypted. Right?

 

[N1SQB]

So what it sounds like is NOBODY has decided that EVERYBODY will be encrypted. Right?

I have said all I have to say to you on this subject.

Manny

 

[wesct]

At a meeting last night with officials "in the know" , I got some not-so-good news. First of all, there is a move already under way, with federal funds, to EVENTUALY change the entire STATE to the 700 mhz digital encrypted sytems that will be available. Now I realize this may be a LONG,LONG time before it ever takes place, but the money from the feds has already started to come in . First up will be systems / towns who already have digital systems running, thats no surprise. Statewide, the CSP will be the first. This is not expected to take too long because it would not take much to do given their already existing and well established system. Now, as I said before, this will take a LONG time to do so I am not putting this out there like a doomsday prophesy of any kind. I know better. I just want to share with all of you, where the thinking is going in this state. I know we will have many more good years of scanning left around here. The thing that got to me was that the talk is to get EVERYBODY on this. I mean Transportation,Police ,Fire,EMS, Parole,Probation,Corrections, everyone that has an active important role in the state. Its going to take them forever to achieve this so I for one am not going to start dumping radios or anything anytime soon. In fact, I am going to sell a few older ones to upgrade even more. I just want to pass this along to keep any and all interested, up to date.

Manny

Manny,

From what I understand, the 700 mhz testing has already been going on for about a year now. All 700 mhz radios will APCO-25 phase 2 only. Time will tell if the encryption will be used full time.

If I remember correctly, I think I mentioned this in the re-banding thread.

wesct

 

[N1SQB]

Manny,

From what I understand, the 700 mhz testing has already been going on for about a year now. All 700 mhz radios will APCO-25 phase 2 only. Time will tell if the encryption will be used full time.

If I remember correctly, I think I mentioned this in the re-banding thread.

wesct

I apologize if it is a repost. I had not seen it. Thanks

Manny

 

[Tom_G]

I hope NOT....

Manny, Thanks for the update...

I remember hearing rumours about 700MHz last year.

Overall I would call this a complete waste of money, especially in the current economy.
The 800MHz system they have now is working and is capable of encryption.
Its not perfect, but it does the job pretty well.

I don't see any benefits to 700MHz.
My personel opinion is they would be better served with a UHF or VHF Trunking system to get better signal propagation across the hills of CT.

73, Tom/G, N1VVD

 

[N1SQB]

Manny, Thanks for the update...

I remember hearing rumours about 700MHz last year.

Overall I would call this a complete waste of money, especially in the current economy.
The 800MHz system they have now is working and is capable of encryption.
Its not perfect, but it does the job pretty well.

I don't see any benefits to 700MHz.
My personel opinion is they would be better served with a UHF or VHF Trunking system to get better signal propagation across the hills of CT.

73, Tom/G, N1VVD

Hey Tom!
I agree with you 100%. But as a former state employee I can tell you this with 100% guarantee, IF IT MAKES SENSE, IT CANT BE A STATE OPERATION..... The rule of thumb is simple, think of what makes sense, and the state will do the apposite...Worked every time for us in the Judicial Branch.

Manny

 

[awasser1]

they cant even buy toilet paper and pens for 6 months...I wouldn't worry about this right now. You have a better chance of winning Powerball.

 

[N1SQB]

they cant even buy toilet paper and pens for 6 months...I wouldn't worry about this right now. You have a better chance of winning Powerball.

Thats true if you are using state money, but federal funds may help speed things up some. Overall I believe my kids will possibly see this happen when they reach my age, I wont...

Manny

 

[GKENY044]

I've been hearing a lot of chatter about it myself Manny. Whether people wan to argue about terminology is outside the box, the fact is CSP has been talked about being moved to 700 for awhile. There is money and more to come. I think your orginial post made it clear that this was not happening in the near future but merely that it was on the horizon.
Just to add, the experts seem to think that encryption is this mystical magic power, the fact is it is from the agencies standpoint a very very inexpensive option to add to their radios. A lot locals already have it in their radios (such as new haven) and rarely ever use it.

 

[CT22]

Encryption

I am 100% behind any system that allows all public safety in the state of Connecticut to communicate without the need for all of these band-aids we currently have (STOCS, Intercity, HEAR, Hotlines, SPAN, CSPERN, State Fire, RICCS, RAFS, I-TAC, I-CALL, NLEF, etc).

No one in public safety should have to wait for a magical STOCS box to arrive on scene to be able to communicate. So what if we lose the ability to monitor on a scanner or lose control of our local system. My town needs three radios in each vehicle (FD low band, PD high band, EMS UHF) and we dont have the money to do anything about it. If the fire, police and EMS across the state can do their job safer and more efficiently than so be it.

The fact that there are many states with counties the size of CT on one system is proof this can happen. And in the long run it will be cheaper because mass purchasing will be possible and training will be the same for everyone.

Kudos to whoever is the push behind the movement.

 

[wesct]

While I agree that one system can work for everybody, the problem is the State of Connecticut.

Everyone who uses a radio will need training and the state will forget to do this. This is typical. "no money in the current budget" will be the response.

So when a user wants to communicate and has no training, what next- more funding and waste to study the problem?

wesct

 

[Tom_G]

spatch713 said it very well. Inter-communication is a great thing.

But couldn't the current 800MHz Astro Digital system be expanded for use by the rest of the state. It is already capable of encryption also...
It seems to me that much of the infrastructure is already in place and replacing all of the radios, repeaters, antenna, etc... seems a bit much.
I guess if it doesn't happen for many many years then maybe it will be more worthwhile.

 

[ecps92]

And there was a recent story about a NH Town being Digitally Encrypted for years, in relation to a MA Town moving to Digital Radios too.

Hmm, that NH Town is Not P25/Enc, they are P25

Can't believe everything we read, until it occurs.

Well, I hate to say it but it is 700MHZ digital encrypted. I specificaly asked that question. He mentioned the CSP who are already digital but not encrypted. This individual definitely knows what he is talking about.

Manny

 

[ecps92]

If I recall, the new XTS Series 800 Mhz Radios also can handle 700 Mhz
so an entire state conversion would not be needed. Inteli Repeaters could be on 700 Mhz for coverage issues and the system would be a mix of 700/800.

spatch713 said it very well. Inter-communication is a great thing.

But couldn't the current 800MHz Astro Digital system be expanded for use by the rest of the state. It is already capable of encryption also...
It seems to me that much of the infrastructure is already in place and replacing all of the radios, repeaters, antenna, etc... seems a bit much.
I guess if it doesn't happen for many many years then maybe it will be more worthwhile.