mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Drive to the Slauson Cutoff, get out, cut off your Slauson…..
"forbidden" cell phone frequencies
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Drive to the Slauson Cutoff, get out, cut off your Slauson…..
Ubbe
Member
It's not about being able to listen to the blocked frequencies, as there's nothing to listen to in US. It's about making life easier for the scanner manufactures not having to deal with different versions of a scanner models, different boxes, manual, firmware, pouring epoxy on the circuit board making repairs more difficult, having one feature available in one version and not the other, having a bug fix for one version and delaying it on others.
It would be so much easier without that frequency blocking, and would also keep production costs down.
/Ubbe
stantorres
Member
I had a friend who was a cellular network engineer for AT&T. About 10 years ago I asked him if cellular was digital or digital AND encrypted. He said the radio signal from the handset to the base station was encrypted, and the handset gets a new encryption key every time it handshakes with the tower to initiate a call. He said even he can't listen into a voice call with his test equipment he can only "look" at the call and see the technical data. The internet says the AT&T GSM system uses the A5 encryption cipher, although I wonder if that's stil true with 5GLTE-evolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/1?wprov=sfla1
KB2GOM
Active Member
Yikes!
@MTS2000des
Speaking of Mitnick he was caught here in Raleigh way back in 1995. One of the best and most evenhanded books to read about cellphone technology in that time frame is "The Fugitive Game" by Jonathan Littman.
There was an Icom 7000 paired with rdfing software that lead to Kevins AMPS signal being tracked down to Northwest Raleigh. There was also some gray area/possibly illegal tactics used by the FBI & Tsutomu Shimomura to track Kevin down.
I pass by the apartment complex where Kevin was caught regularly and always think of him when I pass by there or when I eat at the local Italian restaurant Ragazzis (which is mentioned in The Fugitive Game).
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
I was always fascinated by the Mitnick case. The time was right, the CTIA was dealing with many industry issues regarding cloning and the weakness that AMPS/NAMPS had security wise, while I am not excusing Mitnicks criminal actions, I don't feel his intent was to defraud the operators of revenue. It wasn't like he was caught selling ESN/MIN pairs to dope boys on the street corner. He was a true hacker and got caught at the wrong time. Janet Reno wanted another notch on her belt and he was it.
The good 'ol days! I thought (and still do) the ECPA was worthless since anyone with a UHF tv could tune in on all that cellular action. Following a conversation was a different matter.
I remember in those halcyon days, one could add an accessory board (thanks Bill Cheek, RIP) to your Radio Shack scanner that would allow it to track a cell number (ESN) across any cell sites that were within range. It was a great news gathering tool, but the switch to digital modes rendered all of that moot.
Like so many other laws, the ECPA should have had a "sunset" provision that would cause it to expire after a certain number of years. There are still lots of obsolete laws on the books that do nothing but take up ink and paper.
There was a bit of reading a...guy... told me of that hinted during saturated traffic periods, providers would temporarily turn off encryption.
LE organizations are reported to have devices capable of doing a nixon to intercept certain emissions.
Not widely advertised is it's pretty easy to get the icom -04 version of their flagship receiver. None the less a true dc to daylight receiver with no gaps is difficult to come by. Although an SDR radio such as the RSP line, using their SDR application have the FCC described bands inaccessible. So, just use another app. Spectrum analyzers with audio demodulation and/or demodulator output cover death valley. If a person dived a bit deeper you would see approved equipment with certain capabilities bypassing one or more of the specifications covered in fcc 47cfr15.121 2(b).
LE organizations are reported to have devices capable of doing a nixon to intercept certain emissions.
Not widely advertised is it's pretty easy to get the icom -04 version of their flagship receiver. None the less a true dc to daylight receiver with no gaps is difficult to come by. Although an SDR radio such as the RSP line, using their SDR application have the FCC described bands inaccessible. So, just use another app. Spectrum analyzers with audio demodulation and/or demodulator output cover death valley. If a person dived a bit deeper you would see approved equipment with certain capabilities bypassing one or more of the specifications covered in fcc 47cfr15.121 2(b).
I have the Icom receiver version -04 and as a stand alone receiver its impossible to receive any cell phone traffic. If someone made an app for DSD+ where you could feed the Icom to a computer and use DSD+ for demodulation like some do for DMR, then it could work if there is no encryption.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yep, I have a spectrum analyzer that covers everything from the basement up to 7GHz. The SDR's mentioned will cover this section of the band. Years ago I purchased an AOR remote receiver for a project at work and had the option of getting an "unblocked" model. It was -very- easy to request that and I had no problems getting it. No restrictions on what I did with it, no limitations on resale to someone else. It's sort of a toothless law.
I think overall this is the most salient point. Undue hardship placed on manufacturers and retailers over an obsolete law. This affects our wallets directly and should be worth the effort to repeal.
WRONG!! I don't know about Sweden but people in this country have a right to privacy in their phone calls. It has nothing to do with repairs, epoxy or firmware. If I call my doctor and let him know the jock rash is getting worse, it's none of your business. If I call my wife from my girlfriend's apartment to let her know I'll be "working late," it's none of your business.
The police have to get permission from the courts before they can "tap" a cell phone, or any phone, for that matter. Most courts won't even let you "ping" a cell phone without a court order and ill-gotten evidence is inadmissible in court. And, for crying out loud, I don't want to hear about your cop neighbor that told you about using their "black box" to listen to cell phone calls. Irrespective of that, it's illegal without court permission.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
And with modern radios, any limitation on this is going to be in firmware. I doubt it is undue hardship, considering the band assignments frequency steps and rules/regulations all vary from region to region and country to country.
I'm all for this law being dropped, but I still don't think it's worth the effort. There isn't anything to listen to that would make it worth anyone's while.
If US based scanner companies are shipping radios to other parts of the world where this segment of the band is legal to listen to, then that's something that needs to be taken up with the scanner company. Changing US law won't necessarily fix this.
I'm all for this law being dropped, but I still don't think it's worth the effort. There isn't anything to listen to that would make it worth anyone's while.
If US based scanner companies are shipping radios to other parts of the world where this segment of the band is legal to listen to, then that's something that needs to be taken up with the scanner company. Changing US law won't necessarily fix this.
I don't think you've been paying attention. Even with unblocked receivers on the market now you cannot listen in to the digital, encrypted phone calls. This would have solved the issue back when it first became a problem but the technology wasn't ready. So instead we got a law. A law that is now unnecessary and continues to place a burden on manufacturing and retail, which is passed on to us.
Multiple models exist. Check.
Requirements to make the scanner unmodifiable by using epoxy and extra design measures beyond simple programming. Check.
Retailer stock requirements for mulitple models. Check.
Those things exist, and anyone that says those don't directly cost us money by diminishing economies of scale isn't seeing the big picture.
I'm sure the companies have done a cost/benfit analysis and determined that throwing money at lawyers isn't worth the savings. That doesn't mean we the people can't put some effort into it via methods such as change.org or writing our representatives.
Just a few days ago I believe I saw a discussion about an "app" (to me an "app" is still a program) that would let a person know if someone with a phone was repeatedly getting near them, I think it was based on a raspberry Pi.
Thanks
Joel
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Modern scanners would do that via firmware, not hardware.
Does it cost extra, probably, but I doubt Uniden is going to pass the 25¢ per radio cost savings on to the end user.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
It's not too difficult for anyone to submit the appropriate request to the FCC and request a rule change. Many people have done it in the past and been successful. It's one of the ways we recently were able to get FM on the CB radio band, someone asked.
If anyone wants to have this rule removed, submit it. What is the worst that could happen?
Be aware, the FCC can move at glacial pace, so be prepared for a wait. Also, be aware that others get to comment also, and there is no promise that everyone is going to agree.
If anyone wants to have this rule removed, submit it. What is the worst that could happen?
Be aware, the FCC can move at glacial pace, so be prepared for a wait. Also, be aware that others get to comment also, and there is no promise that everyone is going to agree.
Oh, but I have been paying attention. My rant was based on the original reason the freqs were blocked. I should have mentioned that. The fact that it continues needlessly would be a whole different rant.
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