At least one other user has confirmed that he used simplex on the National Forest. I admit that I'm completely new to this in the aspect of listening to the forest service but since the seventies I have been operating two-way radios when they were simplex dispatch channels, repeater channels and then the new 500 system that's been at LAPD since the early 2000s. I know simplex when I hear it. I know that just yesterday I heard a station talking to San Bernardino and he was scratchy and broken. They were loud and clear. The dispatcher understood him perfectly. I don't see any purpose in trying to convince me that as a police officer I don't understand how a radio works because it's different with a forest ranger. With all due respect. I believe you hit the nail on the head when you said that they don't generally use the repeaters because they could double up with each other at the same time. I have noticed that when they're on the repeater they announce what tone they're on and suddenly the dispatcher changes to that tone. I either hear the dispatcher better or worse. I believe I'm correctly assuming that's a repeater. I know the San Bernardino Bernardino's fairly well at this point. It's 60 miles long and 40 miles wide. That's just the main forest. Then there's the Idlewild area. I noticed it when they give the morning weather to dispatcher announces it twice. I'm assuming since one is weaker it's for the San Bernardino Mountain area and the one that is stronger and closer to me is for Idyllwild. I don't know the extent of the dispatch capabilities of the Dispatch Center or who they dispatch for. But if the conversation I heard yesterday was on the repeater the station that was talking to the dispatcher wouldn't have been breaking up. As a matter of courtesy I think it's probably best that would you slept this lay. I could be wrong but I really don't think I am. I've been using two-way radios professionally for a very long time. I'm new here and I don't want to make a fuss and create a reputation of being contrary. I really just intended to ask a simple question. Have a great day.
I know that just yesterday I heard a station talking to San Bernardino and he was scratchy and broken. They were loud and clear. The dispatcher understood him perfectly.
Yes, the mobile unit operator knows which sites have both a repeater and a remote base. They switch to simplex, then select the tone that the remote base will recognize. R5 national forests typically use Tone 1 or Tone 8 to communicate with the dispatcher and offices, fire stations and visitor centers. Not all national forests have systems that allow mobile-base simplex communications. Based on my knowledge and use of the various R5 systems this simplex communication with a base station, is the exception and not the rule. The Inyo National Forest, where I worked the last 10 years of my career, no longer programs simplex channels for the three nets on the forest. The Cibola National Forest, where I worked in the late 70's/early 80's used microwaved linked remote bases, one for each ranger district, for simplex communications all the time, but provided repeaters in locations that the remote bases could not cover. Now, there isn't much communicating without using a repeater and all the remote base station sites have a repeater located there as well.
I don't see any purpose in trying to convince me that as a police officer I don't understand how a radio works because it's different with a forest ranger.
Urban police officers generally switch channels based on experience and agency protocols. They don't have CTCSS selection switches on their handhelds or mobiles. If I'm wrong about this, let me know. I've listened to the LAPD since I was 17 till I moved away at the age of 22, but visited family there up until 2012. I bought my first digital scanner for the express reason of being able to continue to listen to them. U.S Forest Service employees have to switch channels too, but they have to switch tones as well. They have to gain some experience and learn from others the areas each repeater covers. This is not a straightforward process. The average city PD officer may never know, in their entire careers, which repeaters are being used, the fact that there are satellite receive only sites, which are controlled by a computer, passing the best signal to the repeater. They might not know how the repeaters on the tacticals work and which repeater their signal is being transmitted on. Since their radio does not include ways to select repeaters, their knowledge of repeater locations is minimal, if any at all. This is for a reason, a police officer has a huge number of things to be thinking about all the time, they should not be burdened with what repeater they should select.
It sounds like you know more than the average police officer does about how radios work. During the years of my career in 4 different states and on over a hundred fires in 8 states, I observed that on the average, firefighters knew how radio works more than law enforcement officers. Rural sheriff's deputies often use systems similar to those of the USFS, where they have a tone selection switch and need to be aware of what repeater covers their location the best. Some of these departments have eliminated tone switches and have programmed a channel for each repeater. Mono County has 9 or 10 such channels, all with the same pair of frequencies.
I believe you hit the nail on the head when you said that they don't generally use the repeaters because they could double up with each other at the same time.
You misunderstood what I said. Repeaters now have CTCSS selection for each repeater. There is no longer any doubling up on repeaters. The doubling up I mentioned occurred when USFS systems did not have any means to select which repeater came on when units selected "Channel 2." Forests had Channel 1 for simpex and Channel 2 for repeater access, nothing else. Then DTMF tones were used in some locations to turn on the repeater someone wanted to use and they had to turn it off when they were done. If two repeaters were on at the same time, "repeater wars" would occur. The person who forgot would be cussed out off air, if anyone remembered who used that repeater last. Burst tones were a better method, but the tone was pretty annoying as it was in the range of human hearing. CTCSS is subaudible and eliminates the annoyance Each repeater is on all the time, just waiting for the tone assigned to it, to then start transmitting.
I don't know the extent of the dispatch capabilities of the Dispatch Center or who they dispatch for.
The San Bernardino National Forest is dispatched by the San Bernardino Federal Interagency Communications Center, that is located at the San Bernardino NF Supervisor's Office near the SB airport. They dispatch for: the SBNF, the BLM's California Desert District, Death Valley National Park, Mojave National Preserve, Joshua Tree National Park and the Southern California Agency of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. They also dispatch for the U.S, Fish and Wildlife Service's multiple National Wildlife Refuges located in the large southern and eastern California portions of the state. You can Google the "FICC" and learn more. This is the highest volume national resources/federal land management comm center in the federal government, it is a 24/7/365 operation, an exception in this, not a rule. It's out of the way from my usual travels, but if I have the time during my next trip in the area, I think my USFS retiree ID will get me in.
This center can work every repeater of every net of each system, as well as any remote bases on those systems. . They also monitor Air Guard, National Flight Following and can work the law enforcement nets of the USFS and BLM. Take a look at this site for a bit of additional info:
CAD for the FICC
Hey, I'm just trying to help you get more information about what you are hearing. You bring up some points and I try to provide explanations. If I've missed the mark or somehow offended you, I apologize.