Found control data on unlisted freqs in the db; How to determine?

[Kumba]

I was fiddling with my scanner earlier tonight, trying to figure out what else I haven't yet learned about the device, when I came across what I think are three distinct freqs with control data bursting over them. All are in the 400mhz range, and I checked my county (Charles), and the two adjacent counties, St. Mary's and Calvert, but none of the three frequencies are listed in anything relevant looking.

Small, ~3.1sec sound clips are here:
http://drop.io/izjcnjy/media


407.4125MHz definitely sounds like a Motorola 800MHz trunked system. It's probably distant (or my antenna doesn't pick it up very well), as there's static in it, but it sounds exactly like the control data I hear on my county's trunked system if I were to tune directly to one of their control channels.

462.2000MHz baffles me. I think it's data, but it's definitely a loud, clear, pulsing sound. At one point, the noise broke, and some morse code came through, then the pulsing returned.

453.6000MHz I think is a different trunked system? Sounds like the motorola one, only at a much faster rate.

Aside from hooking up a discriminator tap on my scanner (396T), which I was trying till the pins on the mini-USB I scavenged out of a dead Blackberry broke off, is there any other way to discern just what might be up with these freqs? Since they're in the 4xx range, that makes them Motorola UHF I assume, but if I just plug their freqs into new systems, and set control channel only, what's the likely hood of actually picking anything up? Any real sane way to figuring out if they need the offset data of some kind I've seen for other 4xx trunked systems (DC Police to name one)?

Still new to all of this (been saying that for months, though), but this is one way to learn, I suppose.

 

[ecps92]

Well, the 406-420 would be US Gov't and/or Military. What is the SysID

As for 462.2000, it might be Motortbro [Motorolas new Business band Digital], as you don't tend to see a UHF Business TRS using Motorola, most are LTR

453.6000 could be Alleganey County, as they are licensed for UHF Trunk [YW] but RR says they are an LTR
Maybe you are hearing P25??

I was fiddling with my scanner earlier tonight, trying to figure out what else I haven't yet learned about the device, when I came across what I think are three distinct freqs with control data bursting over them. All are in the 400mhz range, and I checked my county (Charles), and the two adjacent counties, St. Mary's and Calvert, but none of the three frequencies are listed in anything relevant looking.

Small, ~3.1sec sound clips are here:
http://drop.io/izjcnjy/media


407.4125MHz definitely sounds like a Motorola 800MHz trunked system. It's probably distant (or my antenna doesn't pick it up very well), as there's static in it, but it sounds exactly like the control data I hear on my county's trunked system if I were to tune directly to one of their control channels.

462.2000MHz baffles me. I think it's data, but it's definitely a loud, clear, pulsing sound. At one point, the noise broke, and some morse code came through, then the pulsing returned.

453.6000MHz I think is a different trunked system? Sounds like the motorola one, only at a much faster rate.

Aside from hooking up a discriminator tap on my scanner (396T), which I was trying till the pins on the mini-USB I scavenged out of a dead Blackberry broke off, is there any other way to discern just what might be up with these freqs? Since they're in the 4xx range, that makes them Motorola UHF I assume, but if I just plug their freqs into new systems, and set control channel only, what's the likely hood of actually picking anything up? Any real sane way to figuring out if they need the offset data of some kind I've seen for other 4xx trunked systems (DC Police to name one)?

Still new to all of this (been saying that for months, though), but this is one way to learn, I suppose.

 

[dougr1252]

http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/ is a great site for identifying digital modes. 462.2000 sounds like paging. If you post the morse code, there's quite a few people who could tell you what the callsign is (that's what the morse is for).

 

[APTN]

462

http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/ is a great site for identifying digital modes. 462.2000 sounds like paging. If you post the morse code, there's quite a few people who could tell you what the callsign is (that's what the morse is for).

I pick up 462 all the time, I would guess paging as well.

 

[freqhopping]

407.4125 is this system http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=3611
100% encrypted so don't even bother with it.

 

[Kumba]

453.6000 could be Alleganey County, as they are licensed for UHF Trunk [YW] but RR says they are an LTR
Maybe you are hearing P25??

I'm too far away down in Charles county to pick up Allegany. Can't even pick up St. Mary's or Calvert most of the time, nor DC. Alexandria can sometimes come in, albeit extremely weak. Pretty sure if I had a better antenna, I'd pick up more, but I'm fairly new to radio, so all I have is just a Diamond RH77CA rubber duck antenna attached to my scanner.

This one, I guess I'll have to try the discriminator tap mod to learn any more about.

http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/ is a great site for identifying digital modes. 462.2000 sounds like paging. If you post the morse code, there's quite a few people who could tell you what the callsign is (that's what the morse is for).

I only caught the morse code once. My scanner seems to desire tuning away from that frequency after about 10 seconds (or less). If it's paging, is there a known interval, or is it random?

That site looks pretty handy, thanks!

407.4125 is this system http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=3611
100% encrypted so don't even bother with it.

Well, that would explain that. Any point perchance on grabbing the TGIDs if any come across and submitting them to the database?

 

[freqhopping]

Well, that would explain that. Any point perchance on grabbing the TGIDs if any come across and submitting them to the database?

Some DB admins don't like/won't enter unidentified info, so I don't bother.
Talkgroups start at 416 and 912 is the highest I've logged, plus everything in between at intervals of 8.

 

[Kumba]

Some DB admins don't like/won't enter unidentified info, so I don't bother.
Talkgroups start at 416 and 912 is the highest I've logged, plus everything in between at intervals of 8.

I've already picked up a few above 912 over the last hour of just letting it sit and scan: 928, 944, & 960.

Perhaps a note should be made on that system that it's 100% encrypted and no submissions are really necessary?

 

[ericcarlson]

Some DB admins don't like/won't enter unidentified info, so I don't bother.

For the record, this site's policy is not to post "unidentified" talkgroups or frequencies. Any admin who does otherwise is not following the database guidelines.

-Eric

 

[Kumba]

For the record, this site's policy is not to post "unidentified" talkgroups or frequencies. Any admin who does otherwise is not following the database guidelines.

-Eric

What counts as "unidentified", though? By its very nature, we can't identify an encrypted TGID, but isn't there some benefit to at least listing it as encrypted, in the case of a system where you have normal TGIDs as well?

For the A73B system in particular, I can see the merit of not listing anything, since all noted TGIDs are encrypted, so instead of calling it "Unidentified Federal ...", perhaps "Encrypted Federal ..."? I didn't know it was 100% encrypted until freqhopping made a mention of it, and it sounds like he's logged quite a number of TGIDs from it, all currently encrypted.

 

[ericcarlson]

"Unidentified" = no idea. The point is that it has to be something, which is more than nothing. For example, on business trunked systems the type of business is considered identified.

That federal system already has a news entry on it noting that all talkgroups were encrypted but I'll make the note more prominent.

-Eric

 

[Kumba]

"Unidentified" = no idea. The point is that it has to be something, which is more than nothing. For example, on business trunked systems the type of business is considered identified.

That federal system already has a news entry on it noting that all talkgroups were encrypted but I'll make the note more prominent.

Okay, that makes sense. I'll have to figure out this discriminator tap thing and try to figure out what that last frequency is. Here's hoping I can, anyways. Never tried slicing a control channel before, but it sounds like fun.

Thanks!

 

[freqhopping]

About 453.6, I just gave it a listen and tuned in. I receive the same thing in Loudoun Co, VA. I'll record the morse ID.

 

[reconrider8]

that does make sence to at least say its enc. cause ive run across stuff liek that before and its always nice to search the id and see an answer

 

[Kumba]

About 453.6, I just gave it a listen and tuned in. I receive the same thing in Loudoun Co, VA. I'll record the morse ID.

Will that one also give off a morse code at random? 462.2 is the one thought to be a pager. I didn't think what could be trunked systems would give off morse code....wouldn't that interrupt the data stream?

 

[freqhopping]

Will that one also give off a morse code at random? 462.2 is the one thought to be a pager. I didn't think what could be trunked systems would give off morse code....wouldn't that interrupt the data stream?

I just recorded an ID for 453.6. It's transmitted every half an hour as best as I can tell, at :06 and :36.

 

[freqhopping]

I thought there used to be a HAM section on here. Hopefully someone that knows morse is reading.

 

[Kumba]

I thought there used to be a HAM section on here. Hopefully someone that knows morse is reading.

Well, I can't read morse code, but I can record it as well in a high-quality waveform, and read the waveform as a series of shorts & longs...

So what I came up with is KR6048. Sound about right? Would that be a system ID stored somewhere on this site, or a parameter to search for on the FCC site?


Edit: Answered my own question. Google took the identifier and brought up this callsign on this site and says it's expired:
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?cs=KR6048

 

[TinEar]

I thought there used to be a HAM section on here. Hopefully someone that knows morse is reading.

The Morse is "KR6048" (One of my skills from the old days.)

That callsign comes back for Arlington County Public Safety. It also shows as "Expired."

And it's listed in the database here:
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?cs=KR6048

And, after all that, I see it was already recovered above. Sorry for the duplication. I should have read all the way to the end of the thread instead of stopping at "freqhoppings" message.