France proposes 144-146 MHz for Aeronautical Mobile Service

[jjbond]

It's UPS taking part of 220mhz all over again, possible loss of 144mhz-146mhz

If any of you are in France or know anyone there, it's time to start emailing politicians, this sounds like when we lost part of 220 years ago to some system UPS wanted to deploy but never ended up doing.

France proposes 144-146 MHz for Aeronautical Mobile Service | Southgate Amateur Radio News

 

[royldean]

Lots of amateur satellites downlinking in the 145MHz vicinity..... and it's not likely that they can be "turned off" just over France.

 

[ko6jw_2]

The IARU has already voiced its opposition to this proposal. Two meters is allocated primarily to the amateur service worldwide. Its loss would have far reaching impacts.

 

[W5lz]

I wonder what their reason/justification is for this idea. It wouldn't be the first time France has made a wrong decision, but I do wonder why.

 

[zz0468]

I wonder what their reason/justification is for this idea. It wouldn't be the first time France has made a wrong decision, but I do wonder why.

Probably because someone who doesn't understand spectrum utilization figured it was lightly used.

 

[ai8o]

I think the ICAO will have a COW over this !

They are still trying to get 8.33 KHz channels implemented world wide.

Implementing this would require a blessing from the ITU, and and worldwide consent by resetting this allocation at a WARC.

The WARC would have to set :
Emission standards, (AM vs FM vs SSB, vs pulse, or something else),
emission bandwidth,
channel spacing,
implementation start dates and deadlines,
and of course the "exceptions" that some administrations would want to protect some prexisting domestic services.

Remember that only 146-148 MHz is amateur exclusive, 144-146 MHz is already used as an LMR band in many parts of the world.
I don't think ICAO would want to get into another ITU WARC war over 144-146 MHz.

<I think someone at the QUAI d' Orsay has had too many Beignets>

Dan
AI8O

 

[ai8o]

It's UPS taking part of 220mhz all over again, possible loss of 144mhz-146mhz

If any of you are in France or know anyone there, it's time to start emailing politicians,

France proposes 144-146 MHz for Aeronautical Mobile Service | Southgate Amateur Radio News

Why E-mail politicians?!?!

Direct action is much better.

French Hams should borrow a page from the Gilet Juanes.

Organize the Gilet Orange! The Orangerie!

Have all the french hams get out their orange vests, and parade down the Champs Elysse!
I'm sure Macron and the Surete de RF would see that this Idea is unpopular, and drop this idea!

Liberte, fraternite, equalite, et RF!

Marchon au Citoyen!

Vite! Vite! L' orangerie!

 

[nd5y]

Remember that only 146-148 MHz is amateur exclusive, 144-146 MHz is already used as an LMR band in many parts of the world.

You have that backwards. 144-146 is amateur exclusive.

 

[KK4JUG]

They need to stick with making wine (and I don't even drink).

 

[w4amp]

Apathy. It's what's for dinner.

 

[ai8o]

You have that backwards. 144-146 is amateur exclusive.

ONLY IN ITU region 2 is 144-146 MHz amateur exclusive. (North and South America)

In ITU region 1, 144-146 MHz amateur is NOT exclusive, it is primary, shared with fixed and mobile secondary.
<<< Aero mobile is specifically prohibited>>>>> France is in ITU Region 1.

n ITU region 3, 144-146 MHz amateur is NOT exclusive, it is primary, shared with fixed and mobile secondary.

ITU R.217 allows specifically allows Aero mobile in China

Source ITU Radio Frequency Allocations Article 5

 

[W5lz]

I'm in Region-2 so as long as 'they' don't interfere with my listening pleasure, I don't much care what 'they' do...

 

[VK3RX]

https://rsgb.org/main/blog/news/gb2rs/headlines/2019/06/14/iaru-addresses-2m-23cm-threats/

 

[royldean]

I'm in Region-2 so as long as 'they' don't interfere with my listening pleasure, I don't much care what 'they' do...

But because this covers the amateur satellite 2m frequencies, this COULD have an effect on amateur satellites worldwide. If France ends up doing this, it could force (or at least heavily influence) the makers of Amateur sats with 2m downlinks (of which there are MANY now, and many more proposed). If there is no longer a need for 2m downlink sats, then why would the FCC even bother reserving those frequencies for the US? (and from what I understand, the satellite sub-band IS FCC defined, not just part of an operator generated band plan).

 

[W5lz]

There are a lot of things that -could- happen. Then there are a lot of things that might possibly happen. I think this is one of those things where I'm not going to hold my breath until it -does- happen. Then again, I'm not in France, so ...

 

[wd9ewk]

If there is no longer a need for 2m downlink sats, then why would the FCC even bother reserving those frequencies for the US? (and from what I understand, the satellite sub-band IS FCC defined, not just part of an operator generated band plan).

You are correct.

The 145.8-146.0 MHz portion of the 2m band is defined in many band plans around the world for satellite use. Some band plans in North America also set aside 144.3-144.5 MHz for satellite use. FCC rules allow space stations (satellites), earth stations (stations working satellites), and space telecommand stations (stations that send commands to space stations) to use 144-146 MHz for those operations. See 97.207, 97.209, and 97.211. The allocation of 144-146 MHz for both amateur and amateur-satellite use is also shown in the FCC's Table of Frequency Allocations.

 

[W5lz]

I think I've heard enough "yeah, but!" on this particular subject. Anybody asked France why this ->proposal<- was made? Seems like a pretty fair/easy way of finding out the thinking behind it. Otherwise, it's just conjecture. This subject has been beat to death on other forums, what's the point in doing it 'here' too? Different audience? More "likes", whatever good that provides?
Carry on! But I quit...

 

[k6cpo]

I think I've heard enough "yeah, but!" on this particular subject. Anybody asked France why this ->proposal<- was made? Seems like a pretty fair/easy way of finding out the thinking behind it. Otherwise, it's just conjecture. This subject has been beat to death on other forums, what's the point in doing it 'here' too? Different audience? More "likes", whatever good that provides?
Carry on! But I quit...

I read somewhere that this is being driven by a company that manufactures unmanned aircraft.

I e-mailed our ARRL Section Manager about this proposal and he seemed to think we didn't have anything to worry about.

 

[W5lz]

Your section manager is right, this doesn't involve the U.S. at all, it's in France.

 

[royldean]

Your section manager is right, this doesn't involve the U.S. at all, it's in France.

Again, how do AMSAT satellites downlink in a country where it is illegal to do so? The only way is to not downlink at all. Translation: No more 2m amateur satellite downlinks, unless you can somehow engineer in some failsafe to turn the downlink off over France (and France only). This DOES have possible effects to US amateurs, however unlikely it may be....