Freescan GPS mismatch -- Attn Assaf

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c5corvette

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Been trying to set up my 996XT for GPS scanning, but I keep having a hard time making sure I have everything just right.

When I import the systems, the summary screen in Freescan for the site or group shows a different set of coordinates than what was downloaded from the database and what is shown on the Location Settings dialog window.

See photo example attached. Locations Setting box and RRDB match - circled in red. But if you close the Locations Settings box you see the coordinates in the site details and its a different number - circled in blue.

Whats going on - is this a known bug I missed? I have experienced this on 2.10 current verison and just checked previous version all the way back to 2.06 - this is driving me nuts and is very confusing (not to mention how am I to be sure what the scanner is going to do when I upload?)

Please help us out here Assaf...

?????????????????????????
 

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cpuerror

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Sorry but you have used up all your help credits and I can no longer provide any responses. However, if someone else reasks this question I can give them the answer.
 

rwier

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Been trying to set up my 996XT for GPS scanning, but I keep having a hard time making sure I have everything just right.

When I import the systems, the summary screen in Freescan for the site or group shows a different set of coordinates than what was downloaded from the database and what is shown on the Location Settings dialog window.

See photo example attached. Locations Setting box and RRDB match - circled in red. But if you close the Locations Settings box you see the coordinates in the site details and its a different number - circled in blue.

Whats going on - is this a known bug I missed? I have experienced this on 2.10 current verison and just checked previous version all the way back to 2.06 - this is driving me nuts and is very confusing (not to mention how am I to be sure what the scanner is going to do when I upload?)

Please help us out here Assaf...

?????????????????????????
Just for kicks
multiply .892439 (part of Red Lat) times 60
peruse product (answer) carefully
now multiply .54634 (part of above product)
times 60 and peruse product carefully
now compare carefully perused products to
.533278 (part of Blue Lat)
if unable to draw obvious conclusion ask again.
 

rwier

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or better yet, try out the same operations on the Red Long (on your own this time, to see if you "get" it)
 

GTR8000

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Or we can just cut right to the chase so he doesn't needlessly drag this thread out to 5 pages as per usual.

The "incorrect" numbers you see on the Site Setup tab are actually Degrees, Minutes, Seconds (DMS) shown in "decimal" format...not Decimal Degrees or Degrees, Decimal Minutes.

So what you're really looking at when you see:

Latitude: 38.533278N
Longitude: 77.022895W

is:

Latitude: 38° 53' 32.78" N
Longitude: 77° 02' 28.95" W
 

rwier

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You tossed him a fish, I was trying to make him a fisherman, you know the old adage, lol.
 

cpuerror

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Chauffeur6.. That is correct. The scanner uses DMS by default and most online mapping systems use decimal degrees hence the discrepancy.
 

GTR8000

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Yep. I wonder if the OP would've figured it out had he actually physically picked up the scanner and looked at the 'Set LocationInfo' menu. Maybe tried looking at the DMS coordinates from the scanner in Google Maps/Earth and comparing the mapped location to the decimal degrees coordinates from RR. Eureka! :twisted:
 

c5corvette

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I don't see this as funny.

Sorry but you have used up all your help credits and I can no longer provide any responses. However, if someone else reasks this question I can give them the answer.
I hope the above was supposed to be a joke.

Just for kicks
multiply .892439 (part of Red Lat) times 60
peruse product (answer) carefully
now multiply .54634 (part of above product)
times 60 and peruse product carefully
now compare carefully perused products to
.533278 (part of Blue Lat)
if unable to draw obvious conclusion ask again.
or better yet, try out the same operations on the Red Long (on your own this time, to see if you "get" it)
Oh I "get it" - this part is not rocket science:
There are sixty seconds in a minute (60" = 1') and There are sixty minutes in a degree (60' = 1°). Yada, Yada, Yada...
My point is that the software program has a problem.


Or we can just cut right to the chase so he doesn't needlessly drag this thread out to 5 pages as per usual.

The "incorrect" numbers you see on the Site Setup tab are actually Degrees, Minutes, Seconds (DMS) shown in "decimal" format...not Decimal Degrees or Degrees, Decimal Minutes.

So what you're really looking at when you see:

Latitude: 38.533278N
Longitude: 77.022895W

is:

Latitude: 38° 53' 32.78" N
Longitude: 77° 02' 28.95" W
The formats shown are specifically Decimal Degrees. There are only three common formats I work with in radio land. I am not expecting something like use this format, but write it out like the other one to confuse people.

Chauffeur6.. That is correct. The scanner uses DMS by default and most online mapping systems use decimal degrees hence the discrepancy.
I understand Assaf's statement "the scanner uses DMS, but online mapping systems use Decimal Degrees." My question is, what the heck format is Freescan using? If I understand correctly you are telling me Freescan uses DMS, but displays it in the wrong format. Thats the entire point of my original post - there is a mismatch!!!

Yep. I wonder if the OP would've figured it out had he actually physically picked up the scanner and looked at the 'Set LocationInfo' menu. Maybe tried looking at the DMS coordinates from the scanner in Google Maps/Earth and comparing the mapped location to the decimal degrees coordinates from RR. Eureka! :twisted:
How the Freescan software works, has nothing to do with how the scanner works. In fact in Freescan, under Scanner Setup Options > Advanced > Use DMS format instead of Degree you can change the scanner setting, but it does nothing to impact the software.

If that is the case, Assaf, you really should switch to the correct notation.
DING, DING, DING. We have a winner. Jay911 echos my point, exactly. This has to get fixed. Maybe even go a step further and the software could have a preferences tab for what format the user wants to work with and all instances of coordinates would be displayed in that format. Having some of this and some of that and a summary that isn't really any correct format at all is unacceptable.
 

c5corvette

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Guys, in my career LMR job I do a lot with radio site development and gps coordinates. I am not as stupid as I look ;-)

My point here is, when the software actually gives an example in Decimal Degrees (see screen shot below) where it says "Example: 47.805776, -92.427979" then I should have reasonable expectation that it is using Decimal Degrees and not some hybrid slapshot calculation that needs explained to by a bunch of commedians.

Seriously! The easiest fix would probably be to make sure that it uses and shows Decimal Degrees everywhere. (The processing and scanner format should be invisible to the GUI interface of Freescan.)

Please, Assaf, will you kindly address this issue?
 

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Highpockets

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c5corvette,

Take it easy, FreeScan is Freeware, Assaf has a life besides sitting at the computer taking care of all your concerns. He reads all the posts when it comes to his software and takes notes and gets to things as time allows. Using comments like "this is unacceptable" isn't goint to sit well with Assaf and some of the users on RR.
 

c5corvette

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Highpockets:

I've been a supporter of Assaf's program since the day it was released and made a nice sizeable donation the first day he started accepting contributions by paypal. Even so, I don't expect anyone to sit at a computer and take care of anything for me!

I realize this is freeware. However, I woke up this morning to a lot of cheeky responses to a valid inquiry, including the humorus reply (I hope it was a joke) from Assaf. So, my remarks were more directed at this thread than at Assaf, anyone else, or the actual topic of discussion.

That said, I'd like to hear from Assaf instead of you (and why do you get to jump in and be the 'comments' patrol?)
 

W2PMX

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Bottom line - if it's "not acceptable", don't accept it. Use some software that is acceptable to you. For what it does, and for the time and effort it would take me to write an equivalent program (yes, I could do it in a day or two for the functions I need), I think it's an excellent program. (I won't complain about the fact that I have to click the Func button twice most times, unless it causes my mouse to fail.)
 

Highpockets

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Highpockets:

I've been a supporter of Assaf's program since the day it was released and made a nice sizeable donation the first day he started accepting contributions by paypal. Even so, I don't expect anyone to sit at a computer and take care of anything for me!

I realize this is freeware. However, I woke up this morning to a lot of cheeky responses to a valid inquiry, including the humorus reply (I hope it was a joke) from Assaf. So, my remarks were more directed at this thread than at Assaf, anyone else, or the actual topic of discussion.

That said, I'd like to hear from Assaf instead of you (and why do you get to jump in and be the 'comments' patrol?)
Being retired I read alot of the posts during the day and was just trying to give you some friendly advice. I guess you don't need it. Time will tell. :)
 

c5corvette

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Bottom line - if it's "not acceptable", don't accept it. Use some software that is acceptable to you. For what it does, and for the time and effort it would take me to write an equivalent program (yes, I could do it in a day or two for the functions I need), I think it's an excellent program. (I won't complain about the fact that I have to click the Func button twice most times, unless it causes my mouse to fail.)
All I wanted was a response to what I noticed was an issue - and no one, including Assaf (by virtue of his remark in post #2) wanted to address it. Its obviously an oversight or some programming mismatch (as I called it) and it clearly should not be that way and is very confusing to anyone who uses the GPS featues.

I searched this forum for anyone else reporting the issue before I posted a thread about it. What more can you want from a user of the software?

Sounds like youre all set - go write a program then that works for you. In the meantime, I'll keep this one.

*First this thread is filled with off beat answers and now its about my comments back to those who replied - close the thread. If folks continue flaming, I will keep up the rebuttal. They didn't try to recruit me to the debate team for nothing!*

If you havent or dont plan to use GPS, then you will never notice. At my job we just got some GPS capable scanners and I have really started to drill down into the capabilities.

I would consider myself, along with Jay911, a power-user and both of us would probably agree this is misleading and for anyone who does anything with GPS based scanning they will be just as confused.

Now that I know how it is behaving, I know how to deal with it so I will continue to use the software. I still think it ought to be fixed somehow.
 

c5corvette

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Being retired I read alot of the posts during the day and was just trying to give you some friendly advice. I guess you don't need it. Time will tell. :)
Honestly, thanks! That in itself is appreciated. This thread just went south, starting with Assaf's reply.

I hope something gets done about it anyway, its too bad it doesnt appear correctly. I thought I was helping, by pointing it out and dont think there was anything at all wrong with my original post.
 

GTR8000

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In fairness, you never made it clear anywhere in your original post that you fully understood what you were looking at with the "different number". Your post seemed pretty clear that you thought you were looking at a "different set of coordinates" (your exact words), and not simply a different way of formatting the exact same location (definitely a non-standard and confusing format, I grant you that).

My reply, while dripping with sarcasm, absolutely addressed the issue of your apparent confusion. I could not have laid out any clearer exactly what those "different numbers" translated to. So in that sense, you have no valid gripe with me regarding not addressing your original post. As far as what I'm supposed to do about it from that point forward, well the answer is simple: Nothing. I didn't write the software.

I'm not going to speculate about Assaf's reply to you, although I have my ideas and I was certainly not surprised when I read it. I think Highpockets did a rather nice job of addressing the issue of you appearing to be demanding something of a guy who was nice enough to write free software. Your donation to Assaf is, quite frankly, irrelevant. It gives you no rights or privileges beyond that of any other user of his free software.

In closing, I would like to point out that Assaf has a forum specifically for FreeSCAN. While I realize that RR is the de facto "go to" place for things of this nature, perhaps you'd be better served by addressing issues you have with his software on his site, using the forum he has setup for end-user support.

scannow.org - Index

No need to thank me for my help, I wouldn't want you to choke on your pride. :wink:
 

c5corvette

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No thanks about :wink: then at the bottom of this post.

In fairness, you never made it clear anywhere in your original post that you fully understood what you were looking at with the "different number". Your post seemed pretty clear that you thought you were looking at a "different set of coordinates" (your exact words), and not simply a different way of formatting the exact same location (definitely a non-standard and confusing format, I grant you that).
I was just pointing out what I saw, not tyring to make anything clear. It never occoured to me I was looking at the same location - becasue the format he is using is Decimal Degrees. I work with coordinates on site applications all the time and if I did that it would not be acceptable in my job.

My reply, while dripping with sarcasm, absolutely addressed the issue of your apparent confusion. I could not have laid out any clearer exactly what those "different numbers" translated to. So in that sense, you have no valid gripe with me regarding not addressing your original post. As far as what I'm supposed to do about it from that point forward, well the answer is simple: Nothing. I didn't write the software.
Your posts are always good, and most do have some sarcasm, but still welcome. You nailed the issue, but after I read Assaf's response I was frankly upset with that and all the other comments at that point.

I'm not going to speculate about Assaf's reply to you, although I have my ideas and I was certainly not surprised when I read it. I think Highpockets did a rather nice job of addressing the issue of you appearing to be demanding something of a guy who was nice enough to write free software. Your donation to Assaf is, quite frankly, irrelevant. It gives you no rights or privileges beyond that of any other user of his free software.
I never said I had any rights and agree the donation is irrelevant - just pointing out that I like his software. I am not demanding anything, I just think its confusing and ought to be fixed. Its not a proper format so I think that is fair to say could still be described as unacceptable.

In closing, I would like to point out that Assaf has a forum specifically for FreeSCAN. While I realize that RR is the de facto "go to" place for things of this nature, perhaps you'd be better served by addressing issues you have with his software on his site, using the forum he has setup for end-user support.

scannow.org - Index
I know he has a forum, I think I even have an id there (maybe not) but I never think to go there. (Homepatrol has a forum too, but I post here first.) If he requires questions to be only asked in his forum then state that somewhere.
 

bchris

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It gets way worse !!

Let me just say upfront that I have all the respect in the world for some of the folks who have posted on this thread, especially Assaf (did Assaf ever actually make a post? ).

That being said, I would simply like to present a problem that is more serious, but related to, what this thread has addressed. I too use the wonderful GPS features constantly, and have also noticed the discrepency in the GPS formats. All my Uniden scanners as well as Freescan allow selecting which GPS format. I have tried every combination of every setting, without success.

HERE IS THE MORE SERIOUS ISSUE: Freescan obviously converts (internally) between the different formats from one screen to the other, since they are indeed represented in different formats on different screens. There is also obviously some rounding involved due to the conversions. THE PROBLEM IS THAT FREESCAN CONSIDERS 60' AND 60" TO BE VALID NUMBERS, BUT THE SCANNER WILL NOT ACCEPT THEM. The scanner ends up entering zeroes intead of the invalid number, rendering the GPS feature 'broken' for those systems or sites that happen to contain a 60 after the conversion takes place. Since the number I first entered was in decimal format it did not matter at that point, and after the conversion it is not apparent that the problem exists, since there is no separator between minutes and seconds. For example, 116.232607 is valid, but 116.236072 is not.

The question still remained whether the problem was with Uniden or Freescan. Then I thought of it this way... what is the time-of-day one minute after 3:59? Is it 3:60? Nope, it's 4:00. Yes, there are 60 minutes, but the valid numbers are 0-59. Uniden could certainly have handled this error-condition better than entering zeros and giving no indication of any problem, but I have to admit that the root problem would have to be with Freescan.

Also, every time I go to the screen with the map and then back, another conversion (and rounding) has taken place, so the exact same number that worked previously might have now changed to something that no longer works. The same issue is true for LAT and LON. I can't say how many times I have been dozens if not hundreds of miles from home, and finally realized that I should be hearing some system, but I am not. Upon messing with the scanner while traveling, I noted zeros in one of the fields. I spent many hours trying to figure out how this was happening before identifying the actual problem.

Being an Embedded Software Programmer by profession, I realize that problems such as this happen quite often, and can be very difficult to troubleshoot. Even after several years of living with this issue, I have never felt compelled to complain, and in fact have always been appreciative of Assaf and his software. I DID want to report it, but was always afraid of offending someone by using the wrong words. After coming across this thread, I can see than common courtesy is not something that most of you give a damn about, so this is my 2 cents worth. Let me assure you that I have put many more hours into troubleshooting this than most of you smart-asses put into your offensive and irrelevent replies.

I have always imagined that if I could think of the right words to use and reported it in the right way that Assaf would appreciate all the work I had put into narrowing down this problem to this level. I still hope that it turns out to be the case.

Once again, thank you Assaf for the many hours you must have spent writing this wonderful software, and your unbelievable generosity in making it freeware.

Brent Christensen
.
 
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