Freq range of radio greater than freq range of antenna - any possible problems ?

GKLdiy88

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Balun is short for "balanced-unbalanced". The basic answer is that if you are feeding a balanced system (two wires separated from each other) with an unbalanced feedline (coaxial cable), you need a balun to connect the two. There's much more theory behind that answer that others here can expand on for you.

The antenna you mention has a coaxial feed point, i.e. unbalanced. You will be feeding it with a coaxial cable, i.e. unbalanced. Therefore, a balun is not necessary. That said, in some situations, a choke may be necessary in some situations to keep RF off of the feedline or an "un-un" may be necessary to transform between two unbalanced transmission lines.

The radials on that antenna, the three "spikes" that jut out at the base of the antenna, should keep the RF off of your feedline.
Thanks, appreciate the explaination !

Sometimes I try searching online for the answer to my specific situation but often just find general info on some topics that still leave me somewhat unclear as far as my specific question :rolleyes:
 

GKLdiy88

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:LOL:

Thanks for the encouragement, I am leaning towards getting that cable, now I just need to be sure this part is okay to get -

XRDS-RF UHF Lightning Arrestor PL-259 Lightning Surge Protector

I'll be researching it more later.

Now I am considering getting this one instead:

RFiotasy UHF Coaxial Lightning Arrestor PL-259 Lightning Surge Protector

Anyone familiar with this model ?

part of the description includes:

  • High quality construction, reliable Wide-Band Performance from DC-1GHz, insertion loss 0.1dB and VSWR 1.2 , Replaceable 90V Gas Tube Element with High Surge Power Capability High Surge Power Capability
  • A great UHF PL259 arrestor to protect your life, protectors offer HF/VHF/UHF other frequency equipment with extremely low loss. They boast an insertion loss of less than 0.1 dB. Ideal for CB Radio, HAM Radio Gear, 2-Way Base Stations.
 

GKLdiy88

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Well, got to see if plan "B" is okay to do :ROFLMAO:

My wife and I was running some errands today that took us real close to a Lowe's hardware, and I mentioned to my wife that I needed to run in there real quick and get some ground wire, explaining how I found out an outside antenna needs to be grounded to be safe, and as she is always one to tell me if you're going to do something do it right so she was okay with me getting the ground wire, but she quickly started thinking and asked me a question and realized I would need to drill a hole in the floor for the coax cable and did not want me drilling any holes in the floor, she is completely okay with my ham radio hobby as long as I don't drill any holes in the floor. My wife loves me a lot and does not ask a lot of me so I go along with the few things she does ask of me.

So with no attic, I would need to simply have the Comet GP-1 antenna sitting in the same room with me. I am sure it would work better outside up higher but I am hoping it will at least work better than the small magnetic mount car antenna I tried previously. My question is it safe to be within about 3 feet of that antenna when it is transmitting ? My radio is a max of only 25 watts.

If it is not safe I'll need to go to plan "C" and set the antenna up out in the yard next to the patio and use an adapter to connect my 5 watt HT Yaesu FT-60R HT to it just during the times I want to use my HT outside, then disconnect it and wrap up the coax end to keep it dry from any rain.

Hey, I have learned to be happy with the best I can do with any hobby and have fun regardless :D
 

mmckenna

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So with no attic, I would need to simply have the Comet GP-1 antenna sitting in the same room with me. I am sure it would work better outside up higher but I am hoping it will at least work better than the small magnetic mount car antenna I tried previously. My question is it safe to be within about 3 feet of that antenna when it is transmitting ? My radio is a max of only 25 watts.

For a mobile installation, 50 watt radio, gain VHF antenna, 35 inches is the minimum for "controlled environment".
For an "uncontrolled environment", 78 inches.
UHF is 31" and 71"
This is from an install manual I happen to have in front of me for a Harris mobile radio.

Controlled environment is an area that is limited to occupational use, in other words, someone who's supposed to be there and intelligent enough not to lick the antenna while it is transmitting.

Uncontrolled environment is an area that is open to anyone, including those that can't spell RF, and would more than likely do something inappropriate with the antenna while transmitting. It's up to you and your wife to decide which type of people you are.

However, keep in mind that hams tend to be a bit long winded in their rag-chews, so if you tend to talk a lot on the radio, you might want to consider your options.


Other issue is that you likely have other electronic devices in your home. A transmitting antenna inside a big metal box like a mobile home may result in "undesired operations" of the device. That means it might mess with your TV and upset the wife.

Upsetting the wife by transmitting may result in you being granted permission to drill a hole in the floor.

But, I'd probably suggest getting under the trailer and look for existing holes. I'd bet you a cup of coffee that there is something there that you could sneak a wire through without drilling a new hole:

Look for phone/cable TV lines run under the home and coming up through the floor.
When I was a kid, I lived in a hole that had a crawlspace under it. I was able to snake the wire up between the floor and a heat vent, under the carpet and to the radio.

Of course, if you wanted to live life out on the edge:
Give her a gift card to her favorite store and send her out for a nice day on her own. While she is gone, "drill, baby, drill".
(I'm not responsible if you end up homeless after this)

If it is not safe I'll need to go to plan "C" and set the antenna up out in the yard next to the patio and use an adapter to connect my 5 watt HT Yaesu FT-60R HT to it just during the times I want to use my HT outside, then disconnect it and wrap up the coax end to keep it dry from any rain.

Hey, I have learned to be happy with the best I can do with any hobby and have fun regardless :D

Always an option. Or just run it in through a window/door temporarily.
 

GKLdiy88

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For a mobile installation, 50 watt radio, gain VHF antenna, 35 inches is the minimum for "controlled environment".
For an "uncontrolled environment", 78 inches.
UHF is 31" and 71"
This is from an install manual I happen to have in front of me for a Harris mobile radio.

Controlled environment is an area that is limited to occupational use, in other words, someone who's supposed to be there and intelligent enough not to lick the antenna while it is transmitting.

Uncontrolled environment is an area that is open to anyone, including those that can't spell RF, and would more than likely do something inappropriate with the antenna while transmitting. It's up to you and your wife to decide which type of people you are.

However, keep in mind that hams tend to be a bit long winded in their rag-chews, so if you tend to talk a lot on the radio, you might want to consider your options.


Other issue is that you likely have other electronic devices in your home. A transmitting antenna inside a big metal box like a mobile home may result in "undesired operations" of the device. That means it might mess with your TV and upset the wife.

Upsetting the wife by transmitting may result in you being granted permission to drill a hole in the floor.

But, I'd probably suggest getting under the trailer and look for existing holes. I'd bet you a cup of coffee that there is something there that you could sneak a wire through without drilling a new hole:

Look for phone/cable TV lines run under the home and coming up through the floor.
When I was a kid, I lived in a hole that had a crawlspace under it. I was able to snake the wire up between the floor and a heat vent, under the carpet and to the radio.

Of course, if you wanted to live life out on the edge:
Give her a gift card to her favorite store and send her out for a nice day on her own. While she is gone, "drill, baby, drill".
(I'm not responsible if you end up homeless after this)



Always an option. Or just run it in through a window/door temporarily.
:ROFLMAO: Thanks for the humor, even though I hoped she'd be okay with drilling, we still had a good day together and had some laughs ourselves.

As far as finding an existing hole I know there is none within easy reach of the room I need to have the radio in and definitely can't have cable running across the floor to some other place in the house :LOL:

Since my radio is just 25 watts maybe the safe minimum distance from the antenna would be shorter ?

I was wondering if using the Comet GP-1 inside would make any big difference over using my Tram 1185 magnetic mount antenna inside ?

I had yet to find anyone receiving my tranmission using the tram 1185 so would the Comet GP-1 make much of a difference ?

I could very very occasionally receive a transmission so with my remote location I might have to settle for mostly just listening.

Had a long busy day so have not even tried using the Comet GP-1 inside yet.

I'm guessing with using the Comet GP-1 antenna inside that no ground wire is needed and no surge protector is needed.

antenna inside magnetic.jpgantenna inside GP1.jpg
 

mmckenna

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If any of the building material in your home is metallic, you'll have issues with any indoor antenna:
Metal siding
Foil backed/vapor barrier insulation
metal lath behind stucco/plaster
Lead lined walls to keep the mind control rays out.

Any telephone/cable TV jacks in that room? See if the wires run down through the bottom, and your coax could take the same path.
 

GKLdiy88

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If any of the building material in your home is metallic, you'll have issues with any indoor antenna:
Metal siding
Foil backed/vapor barrier insulation
metal lath behind stucco/plaster
Lead lined walls to keep the mind control rays out.

Any telephone/cable TV jacks in that room? See if the wires run down through the bottom, and your coax could take the same path.
:LOL: no lead lined walls

Vinyl siding, not sure if insulation has any foil, metal lath unlikely as manufactured home as sheet rock on the thin side.

Don't remember seeing any old telephone or cable jacks in that room.

We have a large combined dining room / kitchen area, near the back wall of the dining room is where I need to have the radio, if there was a close by window I'd have the window closed down on a 2x4 with a hole drilled thru it, but the closest thing is a sliding glass door.

When I try the Comet GP-1 antenna inside I might as well use the cheaper 12 foot length of coax instead of the 25 foot premium coax because the radio will only be about 2 to 3 feet away from the base of the antenna.

Note: I was just thinking, if my cell phone can easily transmit from inside my house why shouldn't a ham radio ?
 

mmckenna

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Note: I was just thinking, if my cell phone can easily transmit from inside my house why shouldn't a ham radio ?

smaller wavelengths used by cell phones pass through windows better than the longer wavelengths used on 2 meters/70 centimeters.

If any of the shared walls have a TV/Phone outlet on the other side of the wall from the room, you could get in that way.

Or, see if your wife needs a new phone/internet jack….
 

GKLdiy88

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smaller wavelengths used by cell phones pass through windows better than the longer wavelengths used on 2 meters/70 centimeters.

If any of the shared walls have a TV/Phone outlet on the other side of the wall from the room, you could get in that way.

Or, see if your wife needs a new phone/internet jack….
Thanks for the ideas, but no jacks needed, we have wireless TV connections using Amazon Firesticks as well as WIFI.

I though it might had something to do with wavelengths, be neat if they had cell phone size ham radios with the transmitting reach cell phones do :unsure:
 

mmckenna

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Thanks for the ideas, but no jacks needed, we have wireless TV connections using Amazon Firesticks as well as WIFI.

"Sorry dear, I thought you said "Please drill a hole". She won't stay mad at you forever….

I though it might had something to do with wavelengths, be neat if they had cell phone size ham radios with the transmitting reach cell phones do :unsure:

Amateur radio does have frequency allocations all the way up through the bands.
Problem is, there are not that many people to talk to.

VHF/UHF may work fine from your home if there isn't much metal. Give it a try.
 

GKLdiy88

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"Sorry dear, I thought you said "Please drill a hole". She won't stay mad at you forever….



Amateur radio does have frequency allocations all the way up through the bands.
Problem is, there are not that many people to talk to.

VHF/UHF may work fine from your home if there isn't much metal. Give it a try.
Well, if I had drilled a hole before she asked me about the coax and said no drilling then (in hindsight) she might not have liked it but I would have assumed she realized the coax had to get out somehow, but she has a busy work schedule and seems she never really thought about it till the coax was a side discussion to the ground wire discussion today. ......but years of marriage have taught me the wisdom to know it is not smart to deliberately do something your wife asked you not to do :rolleyes: :ROFLMAO: (I still have hope she might eventually change her mind, but regardless I have learned be more patient and realize not everything might fall into place as quick as we'd like :D )

I might be able to give the Comet GP-1 antenna a try tomorrow, but might have to try it a few different times over the next week in hopes of catching someone on the air at the same time and be able to see if they hear me.
 

GKLdiy88

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What about a window pass through? There are many ways to do it, from trashy to you wouldn’t even notice it.
Thanks, I had heard about closing a window on a 2x4 with a hole drilled in it, but the sliding glass door doesn't give me that option, I do appreciate any ideas, and I've tried pondering on it for a while, but so far it's a challenge, but I enjoy trying to figure out challenges :unsure: :D
 

Unidener

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That protector will probably be just fine. Like prcguy said above, there's not much you can reasonably do to protect against a direct strike, at least not in the hobby realm.
Your goal is to get stuff properly grounded per code, and protect your home from a nearby strike.
Just order one....extra piece of mind?

Funny I was getting a ground rod and copper to run to bond to Electric....This guy started talking and he is an electrician.....great advice and he helped me a lot....then he found out that this was for a ham antenna.....He said the trying to get some resources for learning....When I get his email I will send him some links...between working with him and my friend (Extra since about 80's) we out to be able to upgrade our licenses and help him get his....People were exceptionally help full today.....

Happy Memorial Day! (never forget when I told my dad that and he said he wasn't dead yet:oops:!)
 

mmckenna

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Just order one....extra piece of mind?

The NEC is about safety for the occupants of the home. Equalizing ground potential is the goal, and giving stray energy a place to go. Nothing will protect you from a direct strike, but there are things you can do to reduce some of the possible damage, maybe prevent injury, etc.
And, remember, direct strikes are not the only concern. Nearby lightning strikes can still do a lot of damage.
 
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