Frequencies for emergency radios being filled

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usswood

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I'm glad VCSC never thought bout putting all there buses on the SAFE-T...there is nothing wrong with the STATE FREQ on 155.160 that is used by buses in Indiana. This Freq was set up so all buses could talk to each other no matter what part of the state you were in. This worked out well as buses are used all the time for field trips and such throughout the STATE.
 
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firefighter213

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I'm glad VCSC never thought bout putting all there buses on the SAFE-T...there is nothing wrong with the STATE FREQ on 155.160 that is used by buses in Indiana. This Freq was set up so all buses could talk to each other no matter what part of the state you were in. This worked out well as buses are used all the time for field trips and such throughout the STATE.
Usswood ,
I agree with you on that !
 

SCPD

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I though 60,000 was the max number of ID's on a SmartZone system? Nowhere to go but to a P25 network from here. Wonder how much money and time that is going to cost? The state has a ton of analog radios out there...

DSW
 

fishsqueezer

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the clunky old state system is full,tired and soon to no longer be supported by its supplier.all you sheep that just spent all your grant money to join that system....guess what..........
 

GTO_04

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I though 60,000 was the max number of ID's on a SmartZone system? Nowhere to go but to a P25 network from here. Wonder how much money and time that is going to cost? The state has a ton of analog radios out there...

DSW
And..........if they go to P25 Phase II TDMA, it will be unmonitorable, at least for the next few years.

GTO_04
 

W9NES

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Is this the reason why LIFELINE went to a 192.8PL on 155.160? When Boone County EMS was being dispatched on 155.160 (Before Safe-t) Boone County Dispatch was hearing school buses on I-65 going south on 155.160.When Boone County asked for the radio traffic to stop from the busses they contined until they were out of the county.Can some share with us when 155.160 became a State wide School bus freq? What about 155.220 that is also used not only by EMS but also by School Buses across the state.What about the other freqs that are used for School buses on VHF like 155.295, etc
 

iMONITOR

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I think it's planned obsolescence, so the vendor can sell you upgrades down the road.

Michigan's MPSCS experienced a Talk Group grab when they were setup. Michigan State Police for example have 46 event TG's, Wayne County has 35 detective TG's, and 11 radio tech TG's. Detroit (within Wayne County), and another 17 TG's for radio techs.
 

usswood

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Is this the reason why LIFELINE went to a 192.8PL on 155.160? When Boone County EMS was being dispatched on 155.160 (Before Safe-t) Boone County Dispatch was hearing school buses on I-65 going south on 155.160.When Boone County asked for the radio traffic to stop from the busses they contined until they were out of the county.Can some share with us when 155.160 became a State wide School bus freq? What about 155.220 that is also used not only by EMS but also by School Buses across the state.What about the other freqs that are used for School buses on VHF like 155.295, etc
VCSC has always been on 155.160 PL77.0 for as long as I can remember...well over 20+ years
 

rdale

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Michigan's MPSCS experienced a Talk Group grab when they were setup.
There is no issue with the number of talkgroups. It's the number of radio IDs (RIDs) out there.

Michigan State Police for example have 46 event TG's,
Actually MSP only has a handful of event talkgroups. The 46 you are referring to are actually for any agency in the state. Only MSP can use the MSP1-8 event talkgroups.
 

scannerfreak

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Here is some info sent out by the IPSC:

Many of you became aware during the statewide interoperable communication conference in August that the SAFE-T 800MHz system is approaching capacity limits in relation to the number of System/User ID's that remain available to current and future SAFE-T subscribers.

This letter serves as further clarification for this topic.

As of this writing, there are approximately 53,100 ID's configured in the system. Given our current growth, (approximately 2% per month) we envision reaching the system limits in July-August of 2010.

During the November meeting of the Integrated Public Safety Commission (IPSC) I was authorized to notify users of the remaining ID limits and to implement more stringent policy for issuing new ID's.

Effective with this letter, the Commission has authorized the following:

1. IPSC will no longer issue new ID's to standalone 800MHz systems and will instead encourage each of these entities to program national mutual aid channels, more commonly known as NPSPAC Call, TAC1, TAC2, TAC3 and TAC4. Further, standalone 800MHz system managers are asked to review the use of radios to determine continued need for SAFE-T user IDs.

2. The Network Operations Center (NOC) may require agencies to verify use of previously issued ID's/radios for which the NOC cannot confirm system affiliation within the past 60 calendar days.

3. Given the above requirement, the NOC will issue ID's to those agencies who have submitted email requests in the order received. No telephone requests will be honored. Field Coordinators will not be responsible for forwarding email requests, so please submit requests directly to the NOC.

4. IPSC staff will work with agencies who use wireline consoles to minimize the number of resources (ID's) required on each console position. IPSC will also work with agencies to understand better those ID's used in relation to talkgroups being recorded.

5. IPSC staff will research the number of unused analog talkgroups/ID's and will recover and convert as many as possible to digital ID's for future reissue.

The IPSC has further directed staff to pursue upgrade of SAFE-T to the next generation of Project 25 open system trunking radio systems.

To that end, IPSC has been researching options for P25 systems technology, some of which include migration of the current infrastructure. The infrastructure migration to P25 is, naturally, quite expensive. We continue to research available federal grant opportunities and will work with our partners at the Indiana Department of Homeland Security and other state agencies as funding for the upgrade is not currently identified.

NOTE: The Commission strongly recommends SAFE-T agencies contact IPSC staff before purchasing any new radios, as the availability of user/subscriber ID's may impact the quantity of new radios that can be configured in the system. Agencies may wish to consider future programming needs and P25 upgrade options, where necessary, for interoperable communications.
 

K9JGB

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Wow, MAX cap before all users are on board. Well thought out huh?
Maybe counties shouldn't have given every Vol FF, custodian, blah blah a radio for fun huh?
Max cap in the middle of 2010. Amazing technology
 

W9BU

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Maybe counties shouldn't have given every Vol FF, custodian, blah blah a radio for fun huh?
It may be time to get the non-emergency users, such as DOT, off of the system. Of course, that might require building out another system to accommodate the non-emergency users who bought into SAFE-T from the beginning and who have a reasonable expectation for service. Or maybe that's been IPSC's plan all along. Get the 1990's technology mixed-mode system deployed and then come back through with a true P25 system. Be careful of that hand reaching for your wallet. :roll:
 

W9BU

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Lindsay Blanton made this comment in another thread that was started on this subject:

What would fix this quickly is a chargeback mechanism that would be paid by each agency per assigned radio ID.
As an Indiana taxpayer, I bristle a bit at this idea. My taxes to the state have already gone towards paying for this system. If the state then charges my local police or fire agency an additional fee to use the system, that agency is going to dip into local tax revenues to pay for it. That could mean that my local taxes go up (yes, this aspect is complicated in Indiana since the state oversees local budgets and tax rates). In general, I don't have a problem with "pay as you go", but I don't want to pay for the same thing twice.
 

drunyon

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It would be interesting to review a list of all assigned radio id's. Even if just sorted by agency. Likely a lot of waste to be found.
 

usswood

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It would be interesting to review a list of all assigned radio id's. Even if just sorted by agency. Likely a lot of waste to be found.
Simply put...ALL AGENCIES that have radio Id's and don't access the system because they have there own system..GIVE UP UR Id's!!!!

keep 5 radios at your EMA for emergencies if ur radios can't assess the NPSPAC channels for safe-T access..THATS IT

I better not have to pay for something I have already purchased (TERRE HAUTE CITY!!!)
 

DiGiTaLD

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It may be time to get the non-emergency users, such as DOT, off of the system.
Its also time to get Marion County radio IDs out of the system. I can think of just one time I heard any Marion County (MECA-programmed) radio used on the system. That was on J-MA1 with state police, somebody doing a test. Nobody ever switches over in the case of a real situation, they're stuck on their own systems. The programming for the regional and statewide mutual aid channels is in at least some MECA-programmed radios, but does anybody know what its for or even that it's there? It never gets used by Marion County users, so give them the boot. That's possibly thousands of IDs right there.

I think they were issuing the RIDs in blocks so when an agency's radio service provider programs radios, it makes it easier to have a block of available IDs rather than contact IPSC for each individual ID. Of course, issuing the IDs in blocks is far less efficient.

I can see a P25 upgrade in the forseeable future.
 

slicerwizard

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blantonl said:
And when you dig down into it, the need for contiguous blocks of IDs assigned to agencies is ridiculous.
It's actually a very clean, simple and organized way of doing it. Many public safety system managers disagree with you.


Put in place a nice workflow system that assigns vacant radio IDs to new radios... (a portal or other easy to use provisioning process) and away you go.
Considering that your database still doesn't detect/block duplicate talkgroups, it seems like the pot is calling the kettle black.
 

exkalibur

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I'd have to agree with Andy.

On my local system, I can, just by looking at the RID, tell what agency it belongs to, as well as if it is a portable or a mobile radio.

Helps a LOT if you're looking for rogue radios, or stolen ones.
 

slicerwizard

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Helps a LOT if you're looking for rogue radios, or stolen ones.
Or fat fingered techs. When their RID 31054 gets entered as 31045, the system keeps losing track of your 31045 subscriber unit. Good luck getting the problem resolved in a timely manner when it's caused by a tech in some other organization at the other end of the state. When you own the 31000 range (or some contiguous chunk of it), screwups like that are far less likely.
 
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