• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

FRS and GMRS Band Plan

Status
Not open for further replies.

russbrill

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
380
Location
Sacramento, CA
FRS/GMRS Channel 1, PL 67.0 Hz FM Narrowband (Mode 1/1) for random neighborhood contacts

FRS/GMRS Channel 3, PL 94.8 Hz FM Narrowband (Mode 3/11) Emergency Preparedness Groups, Nationwide COMMS

FRS/GMRS Channel 7, PL 94.8 Hz FM Narrowband (Mode 7/11) for random neighborhood contacts

GMRS Channel 20, PL 141.3 Hz (Mode 20/23) Simplex random contacts and or road assistance

GMRS Channel 20R, PL 141.3 Hz (Mode 20 Repeater) random contacts and or road assistance.

This plan is for people that want to monitor for stations outside of their communications group.

Why use PL Tones??? Simply so you don't have to hear business communication in your area or other users not wanting to be bothered.

Just an idea (not mine), any thoughts???

73,
Russ

Best Regards,
Russ Brill
KN6SD
 

iMONITOR

Silent Key
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
11,156
Location
S.E. Michigan
Not needed. Not wanted. There is absolutely no need for hams to instill their version of structure on FRS/GMRS. GMRS is not broken. Any sort of band plan on GMRS is just a solution in search of a problem.

I agree. People use GMRS to get away from all the amateur radio structure, overhead, restrictions, and limitations . Keep it simple and fun! Enjoy!
 

russbrill

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
380
Location
Sacramento, CA
Not needed. Not wanted. There is absolutely no need for hams to instill their version of structure on FRS/GMRS. GMRS is not broken. Any sort of band plan on GMRS is just a solution in search of a problem.

Then you would be in the category of "People not wanting to be bothered with other users" except for your group. Never said anything was broken, the band plan is a "Suggestion" or a "Recommendation" for different users that want to make an RF connection with a particular type of user. And YES, LIKE CB o_O
 

russbrill

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
380
Location
Sacramento, CA
I agree. People use GMRS to get away from all the amateur radio structure, overhead, restrictions, and limitations . Keep it simple and fun! Enjoy!

I doubt that, no one on GMRS is a runaway ham... Sheeeesh.. Most GMRS users use radio as a "TOOL" not as any type of hobby, and that's fine, more power to them..
 

alcahuete

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
2,474
Location
Antelope Acres, California
Why not???

Because there is absolutely no need for it.


Then you would be in the category of "People not wanting to be bothered with other users" except for your group.

Not at all. GMRS is in my regular scan list on my mobile radio. I regularly talk to random other users. There is just absolutely no need for a band plan. It would be such chaos due to the lack of participation, that it just doesn't even make sense.

Does it make sense to have like-minded people on a certain frequency? Sure! It's like the truckers having CB Channel 19. It is basically their "calling channel," if you will. But you don't need any sort of formal (or informal) band plan for that. People just need to start using it for that and it will happen on its own, kinda like the GMRS unofficial travellers channel.

The bigger problem with the band plan is that now you are grouping people together in one place. Great! How do you deal with interference? FYI, PL tones do not eliminate interference. That's not why they exist. A good example from the plan above, you have all the EMCOMM folks voluntarily using Channel 3. From my location, I can hit probably 10+ cities/towns on GMRS using 5w. Now all the EMCOMM groups are interfering with each other. Again, PL tones don't solve interference. So what do these groups do? They all move to other channels. Also where I live, CERT has different parts of each city assigned to different channels for their "band plan." Nothing is going to change that. They don't want to interfere with each other either. So what has the band plan accomplished? Absolutely nothing.
 

n1das

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
1,601
Location
Nashua, NH
Sadly, this is another attempt at a solution in search of a problem. *SIGHE* This definitely is one band plan I will not be following.

GMRS technically is not for hobby communication. It is for purposeful, directed communications among GMRS licensees. It is more for utility type use than hobby use. It is not a place to call CQ and talk to just anybody out there on the band. Most GMRS licensees and FRS users licensed by rule talk to members of their group(s) and rarely talk to users outside their groups. That's also among other reasons why they use CTCSS/PL and DCS/DPL to ignore the other chatter out there.

I doubt that, no one on GMRS is a runaway ham... Sheeeesh.. Most GMRS users use radio as a "TOOL" not as any type of hobby, and that's fine, more power to them..

You said it right there and said the quiet part out loud.

Your band plan lists channel numbers and CTCSS tone numbers. These numbers are meaningless. There is no official channel numbering in Part 95 for GMRS/FRS and MURS. The FCC's designation of 462.675MHz for emergency and traveler assistance in the GMRS rules went away with the change to all-channel licensing in 1999. Previously you were limited to your choice of any TWO of the 8 GMRS primary channels including the corresponding 467MHz repeater inputs when applying for a GMRS license. The license listed the channels you picked and automatically included the 7 GMRS interstitial channels and 462.675MHz for emergency and traveler assistance, if 462.675MHz wasn't one of the two primary channels you picked. The 7 GMRS interstitials also became the first 7 FRS channels when FRS was created in 1996..

Most manufacturers of cheap GMRS and FRS radios followed Motorola's lead with their channel numbering but there is no requirement that they do so or even number the channels at all. Again, there is no official channel numbering in Part 95 for GMRS/FRS and MURS. One of my favorite frequencies is 462.625MHz and this is channel 18 in the Motorola Talkabout FRS bubble packs but is channel 6 in the Retevis RB17 FRS radio. Tone 23 you list for 141.3Hz is 146.2Hz in most radios. A recommended best practice is to always refer to the specific radio frequency and specific CTCSS/PL tone or DCS/DPL code instead of channel and code numbers.
 

russbrill

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
380
Location
Sacramento, CA
For the Record, I have a GMRS License, I have a GMRS Radio, I have a GMRS Antenna up on the roof. I monitor the band pretty much every time I'm listening to my Ham Radio(s) and or the Scanner. In the Sacramento area, MOST of the comments about usage and interference etc. etc., are WRONG... 90% of the traffic here is FRS users and over half of it is BUSINESS usage.

DeWALT is marketing FRS Radios as Business Walkie Talkies https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-Dxfrs...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584482461788966&psc=1

As far as Channels vs Frequency is concerned, NO Kidding, some radios use a different channel assignment. Those radios also come with manuals that list the frequencies for their channel scheme. Anyone that's concerned with a band plan is going to look up the current channel/frequency scheme, like here GMRS Channels and Frequencies ...
 

russbrill

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
380
Location
Sacramento, CA
Because there is absolutely no need for it.




Not at all. GMRS is in my regular scan list on my mobile radio. I regularly talk to random other users. There is just absolutely no need for a band plan. It would be such chaos due to the lack of participation, that it just doesn't even make sense.

Does it make sense to have like-minded people on a certain frequency? Sure! It's like the truckers having CB Channel 19. It is basically their "calling channel," if you will. But you don't need any sort of formal (or informal) band plan for that. People just need to start using it for that and it will happen on its own, kinda like the GMRS unofficial travellers channel.

The bigger problem with the band plan is that now you are grouping people together in one place. Great! How do you deal with interference? FYI, PL tones do not eliminate interference. That's not why they exist. A good example from the plan above, you have all the EMCOMM folks voluntarily using Channel 3. From my location, I can hit probably 10+ cities/towns on GMRS using 5w. Now all the EMCOMM groups are interfering with each other. Again, PL tones don't solve interference. So what do these groups do? They all move to other channels. Also where I live, CERT has different parts of each city assigned to different channels for their "band plan." Nothing is going to change that. They don't want to interfere with each other either. So what has the band plan accomplished? Absolutely nothing.

This is all your opinion, just like the band plan concept.

And we keep hearing about CB usage from people that probably haven't owned one for decades... And for the record, 19 was for East/West Highways, and 17 was for North/South...
 

jeepsandradios

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
2,005
Location
East of the Mississippi
As said by multiple your trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. On top of that the only "channel" that GMRS mobiles can use is 20 assuming a standard GMRS list. Being you don't list frequencies I believe all the lower are FRS and not available via mobile radio anyway. This should suffice to say not a good idea. Lets move on to next weeks "lets fix GMRS/FRS by"
 

NC1

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
733
Location
Surry County, North Carolina
And for the record, 19 was for East/West Highways, and 17 was for North/South...

If I recall correctly, odd numbered channels were for North/South highways, and even numbered channels were for East/West. It was an easy concept because the highways have the same numbering system; odd is N/S, and even is E/W.

Too bad GMRS never had a standardized numbering plan for the frequencies, it would probably have made things easier for new users and would have more of a seamless integration among the masses.
 

tweiss3

Is it time for Coffee?
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
1,070
Location
Ohio
There is a band plan, its called the channels and modulation published in the eCFR.

Here is how bad this idea is: Where I live, cant legally use 19 & 21 (above line A), 20 is unusable due to local interference/pirates, and 1-7 is FULL id business users on FRS. Nobody needs harassed further for not following some imaginary BS "bandplan" because "it will help interoperability and motorists"
 

NC1

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
733
Location
Surry County, North Carolina
There is a band plan, its called the channels and modulation published in the eCFR.


What I meant was all the manufacturers having the same channel numbers correspond with the proper frequencies.
As noted in another post above: " there is no official channel numbering in Part 95 for GMRS/FRS and MURS".
 

AK9R

Lead Wiki Manager and almost an Awesome Moderator
Super Moderator
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
9,293
Location
Central Indiana
§95.563 shows FCC-assigned channel numbers for FRS.

§95.1763 describes the GMRS channels, but does not provide any kind of channel numbering.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
4,987
Location
West St Louis County, MO
90% of the traffic here is FRS users and over half of it is BUSINESS usage.

Maybe you are lucky in your area but here in my area the 90% being FRS use between FRS and GMRS is probably accurate but 50%+ being Business users on FRS is way off.
I'd say less than 5% are business users here on FRS and on GMRS from the FRS radios that had some GMRS frequencies in them.
95% is mostly kids goofing off in my area.
Now the unlicensed MURS channels and the itinerant business frequencies that need a license are mostly business users here. The itinerants do have a fair amount of unlicensed users on them in this area but almost all users are using their radios for business purposes.
It's rare I find children goofing off on MURS channels or the itinerants for business use.
Genuine GMRS use is almost non-existent in my area. I was licensed at one time but the only GMRS repeater was not easy to be approved to use it and there were no others within range that would work with a portable and probably most higher power GMRS mobiles due to the surrounding terrain.
 

marcotor

I ♥ÆS Ø
Feed Provider
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Messages
1,132
Location
Sunny SoCal
Here in the RF jungle that Southern California is, there are multiple repeaters on GMRS, all used in different ways. Some are for fire watch in the canyons and mountains. Some are for whackers who like to inflate their self images by calling themselves "designated first-responders". The more well known have deteriorated into nothing but mirror of the many amateur repeaters in the area - old men whining about how the world is going to pot. I hear a fair amount of FRS traffic in my neighborhood, and it's fun to engage the children mostly playing with their radios. There is a small amount of business traffic, mostly a feed store nearby, and stores in the local malls.

No band plan.
No structure.
No coordination, outside of being courteous and not putting a repeater up where there is a decent coverage system existing.
Works great for those that choose to participate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top