General Motors - Parma Metal Center - DMR T3 (likely Capacity Max) - sleuthing help needed

[mtindor]

Hi Folks,

If you are in the Parma area and you have access to DSDPlus Fast Lane or something that will accurately determine the characteristics for a DMR T3 Motorola Capacity Max system, please read further. A submitter submitted some info about this system but it is not complete and thus cannot be added to the DB yet.

Plant: General Motors - Parma Metal Center - Parma, Ohio (Cuyahoga)
Callsign: WQTQ282
Location: Brookspark & Stumph Rds

Reported current CC: 935.775 (as of 6-18-2025)
Reported Current System Type: DMR T3

Frequencies on the license (and any could be the CC at the time you are sleuthing)

935.1625
935.2625
935.5125
935.7625
935.775
936.0125
936.025
936.2125
936.2375
936.2625
936.275
936.3875
936.400

This is likely going to be DMR Tier3 Capacity Max
- the other Cap+ / Con+ sites that have updated are Tier3 Capacity Max

We need to know the accurate system type (likely DMR Tier 3 Non-Standard Moto aka Capacity Max)
We need to know the system ID and site ID
We need to know any active frequencies / LCNs / LSNs
We need to know any active talkgroups (if they can be determined)

Your help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Daleb49]

Can my Whistler TRX-1 receive that system?
I'll be right next to the plant tomorrow for about 2 1/2 hours.
I have all the frequencies programed in as DMR conventical.

 

[mtindor]

Can my Whistler TRX-1 receive that system?
I'll be right next to the plant tomorrow for about 2 1/2 hours.
I have all the frequencies programed in as DMR conventical.

I have no idea. But if it can, it probably can’t tell us any of the information that we need to know.

 

[Daleb49]

Sorry it will be in my car and I don't have anyway to run DSD+.
Last time I took the TRX with me I got nothing from the plant at all.
I figured they must have ungraded something.

 

[216DawgPound]

System ID is 19

 

[Daleb49]

System ID is 19

Thanks for the info. It helps to put all the puzzle together.

 

[216DawgPound]

I sat on this system with my SDS100 in LCN finder mode for 2.5 hours this afternoon. It logged 2 LCNs. However, on 935.775 it showed 4 different LCNs. Any idea why?

 

[mtindor]

I sat on this system with my SDS100 in LCN finder mode for 2.5 hours this afternoon. It logged 2 LCNs. However, on 935.775 it showed 4 different LCNs. Any idea why?

Because scanners are often wrong about T3 system LCNs. What LCNs did you get that you think are correct? Was 935.775 the CC at the time? If 935.775 was the control channel, a scanner (or DSDPlus) will never figure out the correct LCN unless there is voice traffic on timeslot 2. And most of the time on T3 systems there isn't. So if 935.775 was a CC, that's probaby why it was reporting different LCNs at different times.

But if you would pass along the two other LCNs that the scanner reported, that could be helpful.

 

[mtindor]

System ID is 19

Next time you are parked on the control channel with your scanner, any chance you can snap a screenshot of the display on the scanner? It's going to display both a Network ID and a Site ID along with other info.

 

[mtindor]

Hard to believe there isn't anyone in the Brooklyn, Parma, Parma Heights area of Cuyahoga Co with DSDPlus (assuming this site is very low power). It still should be able to be pulled in from 2-5 miles away with a decent setup.

 

[216DawgPound]

It shows net I'd as 19. Site is as 1

 

[mtindor]

Check the open ticket you have. I sent you a bunch of information in there.

 

[mtindor]

This isn't confirmed, but the likely LSNs/LCNs for this system are listed below. If you have DSDPlus Fast Lane or a Uniden scanner or SDRTRunk and you are close enough to monitor this system, try these values. It would be handy if there were somebody up in the area that could test this speculative data.

Uniden Scanner / SDRTRunk: Use the LCN
DSDPlus: Use the lower of the LSN pair (such as 27 in the 27/28 LSN pair or 41 in the 41/42 LSN pair)
All above: You only have to program each frequency once

This is a Motorola Capacity Max (DMR Tier 3 NonStandard) system.
Network Model: (S)mall
Network ID: 25 dec / 19 hex
Site ID: 1

LCN   LSN   FREQ
13    27    935.1625
13    28    935.1625
21    41    935.2625
21    42    935.2625
41    83    935.5125
41    84    935.5125
61    123   935.7625
61    124   935.7625
62    125   935.775 current CC
62    126   935.775
81    163   936.0125
81    164   936.0125
82    165   936.025
82    166   936.025
97    195   936.2125
97    196   936.2125
99    199   936.2375
99    200   936.2375
101   203   936.2625
101   204   936.2625
102   205   936.275
102   206   936.275
111   223   936.3875
111   224   936.3875
112   225   936.400
112   226   936.400

 

[mtindor]

LCN   LSN   FREQ
13    27    935.1625
13    28    935.1625
21    41    935.2625
21    42    935.2625
41    83    935.5125
41    84    935.5125
61    123   935.7625
61    124   935.7625
62    125   935.775 current CC
62    126   935.775
81    163   936.0125
81    164   936.0125
82    165   936.025
82    166   936.025
97    195   936.2125
97    196   936.2125
99    199   936.2375
99    200   936.2375
101   203   936.2625
101   204   936.2625
102   205   936.275
102   206   936.275
111   223   936.3875
111   224   936.3875
112   225   936.400
112   226   936.400

Above likely not true. If a Uniden scanner can be trusted to gather T3 LCNs,, it is more likely to be something like this (but no guarantees):

The calculations below are based upon a 0.0125 bandplan and the fact that someone had submitted LCNs discovered from a Uniden scanner for three frequencies as shown below:

LCN 22 is 935.5125
LCN 62 is 936.0125
LCN 82 is 936.2625

Assuming those LCNs are corrected from the Uniden scanner for those three frequencies, then the following is likely true:

FREQ        LCN (Uniden)    LSN (DSDPlus)
935.2625    2               5 / 6
935.5125    22              45 / 46
935.7625    42              85 / 86
935.775     43              87 / 88
936.0125    62              125 / 126
936.025     63              127 / 128
936.2125    78              157 / 158
936.2375    80              161 / 162
936.2625    82              165 / 166
936.275     83              167 / 168
936.3875    92              185 / 186
936.400     93              187 / 188

NOTE: You probably won't pick up this system unless you have a good antenna system or are close to the site. The system is now listed in the RRDB. However, there are currently no known talkgroups listed and thus it would not show up in Sentinel for download.