Genesee Co toneouts

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SCPD

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I was listening to Genesee Co test Argentine Twp's pagers today and the toneouts were heard on the MPSCS TG and not just the old VHF freq. This has never happened before. Whats up with that?
 

nsrailfan6130

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I was wondering who that was on 154.145 (46-Clinton FD Tac 5). I thought they operated solely on the MPSCS and did away with the VHF channels?
 

SCPD

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I was wondering who that was on 154.145 (46-Clinton FD Tac 5). I thought they operated solely on the MPSCS and did away with the VHF channels?
Yeah MPSCS 2402 (Genesee Co Fire Dispatch) is a direct simulcast of 154.145 (PL 127.3), Genesee Co's old Fire Dispatch North freq. The toneouts were VHF only until today though. I'm wondering if they upgraded their pagers or what??
 
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SCPD

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I didn't think the pagers could work on a digital system is what I meant to say. Poor wording on my part.
Fenton is on the MPSCS and their pagers are heard on it, they don't use conventional freqs at all any more. Same thing for MMR.
 

SCPD

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They don't. They can simulcast the audio, but no tone pagers work with a trunked system.
The MPSCS simulcasts the toneouts you mean? I've always heard toneouts on Fenton FD (2000) and since a few months ago MMR (1611) talkgroups.
 
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rdale

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Correct. They can simulcast the tones, but the pagers still need VHF/UHF (not MPSCS) to alert.
 

rdale

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It's not that they can't use 800MHz - but they can't use a trunked system. You'd basically have to put an entire trunktracking scanner inside the pager case to do so, since it could be on any of 5-10+ frequencies. That's why FDs still do their toneouts on a conventional channel.
 

SCPD

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It's not that they can't use 800MHz - but they can't use a trunked system. You'd basically have to put an entire trunktracking scanner inside the pager case to do so, since it could be on any of 5-10+ frequencies. That's why FDs still do their toneouts on a conventional channel.
Seems like they would have upgraded the technology by now. It IS the year 2010. You can put 10,000 songs on something the size of a pack of cards but they can't invent a trunkable/digital pager? Come on Motorola!
 
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rdale

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Of course you can. But look at the cost of a pager - $150 to 400 depending on features. No need for a fancy antenna sticking out your back side. No worries about reception issues, or the control channel being lost.

Look at the cheapest reliable digital scanner. $450. Now tack on the paging features, and you're at $600 - $900. Then you have all the issues that scanners do with missing transmissions on CQPSK. You know how you move your scanner a half-inch and go from crystal-clear to all garbled? Do that with a pager and the firefighter never wakes up.

So your next choice is to duplicate a Motorola W7 and strap that to your belt. 1) A little bulky 2) It'll set you back about $2500.

I think it's clear why VHF/UHF pagers aren't going anywhere ;)
 

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Look at the cheapest reliable digital scanner. $450. Now tack on the paging features, and you're at $600 - $900. Then you have all the issues that scanners do with missing transmissions on CQPSK. You know how you move your scanner a half-inch and go from crystal-clear to all garbled? Do that with a pager and the firefighter never wakes up.
I think you're exaggerating a little. I get at least a 90% signal anywhere in my apartment with my Pro 96. yes the antenna is kind of long but you can get those 1 inch "stub" antennas. The CQPSK problem has been solved with newer scanners as well (Pro 106/Pro197, and I'm not sure on this but Bearcats never had it to begin with)

So your next choice is to duplicate a Motorola W7 and strap that to your belt. 1) A little bulky 2) It'll set you back about $2500.
They said the same thing about cell phones when they first came out. Remember those huge "brick" cellphones from the 80's? And they were like 500 bucks. My Nokia I bought 2 years ago cost me 20 bucks and I could probably fit 3 or 4 in each of my pants pockets now. Also they used to be in the 870-894 MHz analog band (as recent as 10 years ago) and now they're in the 1.3 GHz digital spread spectrum band. Phone technology is always shrinking and being upgraded and there's no reason why pagers can't as well.
 

rdale

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I think you're exaggerating a little.
No.

I get at least a 90% signal anywhere in my apartment with my Pro 96
So you'd think it is acceptable to only have your pager go off for 9 out of every 10 calls?

The CQPSK problem has been solved with newer scanners as well (Pro 106/Pro197, and I'm not sure on this but Bearcats never had it to begin with)
I don't mean to sound rude - but what in the world are you talking about? No scanner receives CQPSK systems great. Some do better than others, but I've never been in a CQPSK area (I'm through four quite often) where the reception on my scanner was 95% or better.

But again - realize we need close to 100%. You can't get that with a trunked scanner and a stubby antenna.

Phone technology is always shrinking and being upgraded and there's no reason why pagers can't as well.
How many cellphones are in the world today? Compare that to how many pagers are in the world. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

And even if they did smash a PSR500 into something the size of a cigarette box, you STILL need a good antenna. You still need MUCH more battery power to run a small scanner 24x7 (since it is receiving the control channel ALL THE TIME so never rests) than you do a pager which only is "active" when a signal is being broadcast.
 

SCPD

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No.

I don't mean to sound rude - but what in the world are you talking about? No scanner receives CQPSK systems great. Some do better than others, but I've never been in a CQPSK area (I'm through four quite often) where the reception on my scanner was 95% or better.

I don't know what scanner you have but the problems I had with GenCo's system with my Pro 96 (dropped calls, etc.) are gone with my Pro 106.

Also ever heard of a base station antenna?
 

rdale

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I don't know what scanner you have but the problems I had with GenCo's system with my Pro 96 (dropped calls, etc.) are gone with my Pro 106.
Even in downtown Flint? I have the PSR500, Pro96, 396XT and 996XT. I've regularly listening to Detroit, Monroe Co, GenCo & LucasCo and while driving around I _never_ get 100% reception.

Also ever heard of a base station antenna?
Yes. Are you suggesting that you strap a base station antenna onto your ballcap? That's a little inconvenient.
 

KC8NIY

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When the MPSCS can support 95% or better reliability on a portable device with an internal antenna, the possibility of a trunking pager becomes feasible. When you add in to the equation the costs involved to actually produce a marketable pager the size of today's Minitors with such capability, the possibility is reduced to almost zero. The cost would outweigh the budget of the majority of targeted users, and thus there is no market for the product.

The MPSCS was never designed with this intent, and would be many years and many millions away from providing the requisite coverage. Thus, simulcasting on VHF/UHF is alive and well, and will be for quite some time to come. Ultimately, you'll see other changes in technology become reliable alternatives to simulcasting before you see a trunking pager for MPSCS use.
 

SCPD

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Even in downtown Flint? I have the PSR500, Pro96, 396XT and 996XT. I've regularly listening to Detroit, Monroe Co, GenCo & LucasCo and while driving around I _never_ get 100% reception.

You think I'm crazy enough to take a $500 scanner into downtown Flint?

Yes. Are you suggesting that you strap a base station antenna onto your ballcap? That's a little inconvenient.
I listen mostly at home and my reception is excellent with both my base station (GenCo only) and handheld (6 MPSCS towers at once). On the rarity I take it in the car I get great reception in there too via the mag mount. I can even take it for a walk and get great reception. I think you need to invest in some better antennas.
 
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