Hello, I am sorry as I truly do not know where to put this post feel free to move it, but for the purposes of experimenting with radio protocols that are not allowed to be experimented with on amateur radio I would like to get my own frequency on a license. Has anyone done so before or know where I could contact someone who has? I specifically have questions about pricing, thank you for any help in understanding how to proceed.
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Getting own license for a frequency
- Thread starter Ilikeradiostuff
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Wondering what protocols are not allowed to be experimented with on amateur radio?
I’m wondering if you need a regular LMR license or some type of experimental authorization, if it’s something you can’t even do on ham radio.
I’m wondering if you need a regular LMR license or some type of experimental authorization, if it’s something you can’t even do on ham radio.
I would like to play around with encryption, and it is strange that you cannot experiment with it but if it's not thousands of dollars to get a frequency I think it would be a fun little thing to play with.
there are websites online that will help you out but be prepared to pay several hundred dollars. You can also try and do it yourself for simplex but it’s still hard.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Two options:
FCC Experimental Licensing:
This is what manufacturers, researchers, etc. use for setting up a license to do experimental stuff. It's an option for you, but in reality, what you are doing isn't true experimentation. You just want to try something you can't do on ham radio.
Other option:
Actually 2...
1. License an itinerant frequency and list out all the common analog/digital emission designators. Encryption isn't an emission type, so just do narrow FM, P25, DMR, NXDN, etc.
Drawback: Itinerant frequencies are SHARED, which means you may have other users on the frequency.
2. If you don't want to share, then you need to work with a frequency coordinator to identify an available frequency or frequency pair that is available and suitable for what you are doing. A coordinated frequency will give you some protection from interference from other users.
Drawback: You'll have to pay for the frequency coordination (few hundred bucks per frequency/location) + the FCC licensing fees.
You'll also need to come up with some sort of legit usage. "Playing around with it" isn't going to get you an FCC license. Time to develop a small business….
Just remember, if you go this route, you can't use non-type certified equipment. You'll need suitable Part 90 equipment.
We use to have what we called "demo licenses" that covered all the VHF/UHF/800 bands, for use in temporary demonstrations of equipment and systems to customers, coverage and signalling tests, etc.. We'd program up a couple radios for them to try out for a week or two.
I have the feeling they stopped issuing these types of licenses, but don't really remember why. NABER (a coordinator) probably complained at not getting their $$$.
Perhaps someone more current can comment.
I have the feeling they stopped issuing these types of licenses, but don't really remember why. NABER (a coordinator) probably complained at not getting their $$$.
Perhaps someone more current can comment.
The bigger issue is that your mileage may vary trying to get a frequency assigned for personal use, especially if you are a ham. I know plenty of people who have been denied Part 90 frequencies for anything other than business use. Uploading business information/Tax ID is generally part of the process.
Just used WAI to get several UHF frequencies for business purposes. Super helpful, cost a few hundred dollars and takes about 4 weeks. Remember a typical license is good for 10 years, I would hate to see you tie up usable frequencies for 10 years for one experiment. Consider working with a local HAM group might be better, if you have buy in from your community you are much better off.
Encryption development requires a lot of computing power and advanced mathematics. Writing the algorithm to a chip and sending it as a modulated RF signal is simple. An itinerant frequency should be more than enough for proof of concept.
NABER is an inactive corporation in Virginia now. Looks like it died, was bought out, or taken over.
"play around with" like use it and see how different settings on different radios might not work together, or "play around with" like write your own new algorithm and protocols and go out side of the box?
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In reality testing and developing encryption for radios does not require radios. It is largely math and modeling.
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Ilikeradiostuff, if you are really serious about your encryption experiments, and can write up what you propose to do- like how you will do it and what you want from the FCC as far as authorization(s)-- look at Part 5.
Its not easy but if you can sell yourself to the powers that be, you can get a license (I have had a few over the years btw) ------Good luck
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Its not easy but if you can sell yourself to the powers that be, you can get a license (I have had a few over the years btw) ------Good luck
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mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Making the radios that do encryption work under the Part 15/19 rules would be difficult. Dumping the output right into a dummy load would probably be an option, but range would be measured in feet. But, that could be done on amateur, too.
Itinerant frequency would be the easy option, and would provide some usefulness when the experiment was complete.
Itinerant frequency would be the easy option, and would provide some usefulness when the experiment was complete.
Encryption isn't disallowed under Part 97. Obscuring the meaning is disallowed. You can use encryption IF the key is widely published and available. Similar to developing a new CODEC - it's basically encryption unless you publish it.
The other thing you can do is setup radios on wire, rather than the ether. A radio connected thru a properly configured attenuator to another radio acting as the receiver.
The other thing you can do is setup radios on wire, rather than the ether. A radio connected thru a properly configured attenuator to another radio acting as the receiver.
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