GMNF 169.1750R/???.????

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in my area I haven’t heard any chatter on their normal channel 2 most of the sheriffs are digital. Washington county does have a digital repeater but they do not use it. Pretty much all of them have an analog and a direct channel programmed in the radios. Most of not all have the UTAC channels programmed in with The call channel repeat side freq. wondering I haven’t seen anything on Vermont but has anybody heard anything on the Green Mountain national Forest? I do know that the White Mountain national Forest, NECC as they call it. I know a couple of the frequencies they use but have never been able to find the exact new NTIA input channel.
 

cmpsa

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Massachusetts
I can help you with that, confirmed:
National Forest Service {NFS} (Green Mountain National Forest, Vermont)
169.1750 VT Statewide Rptrs PL 110.9 (input has various input PL tones)
166.5625 simplex PL ??? {saw on scanner list, but never heard anything in 4 years}

When I'm around the Killington area, I hear daily transmissions from the NFS staff talking back & forth to the Rutland (231 North Main St, Rutland) and Rochester (99 Ranger Rd, Rochester, off VT Rt 100) ranger station offices. Most radio comms from Rochester is maintenance related (i.e. fixing gates, checking water gauges, and other misc type work). Very rarely do I hear anything like a lost person search. Have heard of a brush fires, vandalism calls, & check on a camp site type calls. Hope that helps.

Here's the RadioReference page (includes repeater location listing):
 
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
36
Location
Upper Connecticut Valley (NH)
I’m looking for the input frequency to the repeaters. I can hear them when I travel up and down NH 93 and VT Rt. 5. All their receive tones are 110.9. This winter I caught it but can’t remember where I wrote it down got a new scanner an old 2096 I want to program it in. I have looked at radio references website but it doesn’t show their new input channel can sometimes also here green mountain talking to Campton office in New Hampshire that’s apparently like dispatch for the whole Northeast
 
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
36
Location
Upper Connecticut Valley (NH)
repeaters. I can hear them when I travel up and down NH 93 and VT Rt. 5. All their receive tones are 110.9. This winter I caught it but can’t remember where I wrote it down got a new scanner an old 2096 I want to program it in. I have looked at radio references website but it doesn’t show their new input channel can sometimes also here green mountain talking to Campton office in New Hampshire that’s apparently like dispatch for the whole Northeast
 

ecps92

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Almost 2 yrs ago now, WMNF and GGMNF changed the input frequencies due to NTIA Rules.

WMNF was an easy find [already in the Wiki], but now the project is to match up the input tones to the Old and new Repeaters.

This past fall [Oct], while over in No.Conway on our way to Twin Mtn, we stopped at the Interval Scenic Vista
I ran across a new frequency and it was at the end of the day, reporting Weather for VT [didn't get it again, due to the weekend]
and being the end of the season the Campton dispatch was closed for the weekend.

Even sat down the road from the Campton Office 3-5p waiting.
But it must put out a great signal where ever 164.9375 is for me to get it in North Conway, if it is Campton

What I got was 164.9375 146.2 , my assumption on this is"
Campton was transmitting to another remote site that then keys up the Real input to GMNF repeaters [generally had seen this with UHF Links not VHF Links]

Or Campton is just able to get into only one of the higher sites for GMNF - looking at Topo maps, I am guessing this might be
Killington or Philadelphia is my guess as Equinox is to far south and too any mountains to have a direct path from Campton

Again, all assumptions and I didn't want to take the VTSP thread and HiJack it , so thanks for creating this thread.


repeaters. I can hear them when I travel up and down NH 93 and VT Rt. 5. All their receive tones are 110.9. This winter I caught it but can’t remember where I wrote it down got a new scanner an old 2096 I want to program it in. I have looked at radio references website but it doesn’t show their new input channel can sometimes also here green mountain talking to Campton office in New Hampshire that’s apparently like dispatch for the whole Northeast
 

Sh3rb3rt

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Feb 15, 2013
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Central Vermont
I will be listening to 169.175 and watching for signals on nearby frequencies with RTL-SDR to try to see the input freq when they key up. Hearing the inputs and confirming tones may be hard given my location (Mad River Valley) I do camp in the GMNF in Grandville a lot in the summer. Will see what I can find when I am closer to the Rochester station. I will will update here if I can find it. Just silence so far. May take a while given the state of things right now.
 
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Messages
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Upper Connecticut Valley (NH)
Well they have a repeater in Lincoln Peak which isn’t too far from you in Mad River. I know they change the input. I do know when I was down there talking to one of the Rangers he transmitted on Mount Washington and hit it clear as day from headquarters, also Milan Hill is still active for them And it was never taken out of service. Their radios are program to east and west groups, some of the channels do overlap in the groups. I can hear green mountain national forest transmit off the same output channel 169.1750R110.9Hz. mostly coming off of Killington or Lincoln Peak.
 

Sh3rb3rt

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Location
Central Vermont
Well they have a repeater in Lincoln Peak which isn’t too far from you in Mad River. I know they change the input. I do know when I was down there talking to one of the Rangers he transmitted on Mount Washington and hit it clear as day from headquarters, also Milan Hill is still active for them And it was never taken out of service. Their radios are program to east and west groups, some of the channels do overlap in the groups. I can hear green mountain national forest transmit off the same output channel 169.1750R110.9Hz. mostly coming off of Killington or Lincoln Peak.
I can see Lincoln Peak out my window. Hearing the repeater on 169.1750 110.9Hz is not an issue. Hearing the input freq from a truck on the south end of Grandville gorge may be impossible from here due to my elevation. If they come up to the northern terminus of the GMNF (Slide Brook Basin) I won't have any issue. I have never seen a ranger north of forest road 25 however. I will keep trying, but this may take some time.
 

chrismol1

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Saratoga, NY
169.175 Friday 3:00PM weather broadcast, also some weather broadcasts early morning 7-8am. Earlier this week heard someone loud and clear calling in "on the Equinox repeater"
 

Paysonscanner

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I can help you with that, confirmed:
National Forest Service {NFS} (Green Mountain National Forest, Vermont)
169.1750 VT Statewide Rptrs PL 110.9 (input has various input PL tones)
166.5625 simplex PL ??? {saw on scanner list, but never heard anything in 4 years}

When I'm around the Killington area, I hear daily transmissions from the NFS staff talking back & forth to the Rutland (231 North Main St, Rutland) and Rochester (99 Ranger Rd, Rochester, off VT Rt 100) ranger station offices. Most radio comms from Rochester is maintenance related (i.e. fixing gates, checking water gauges, and other misc type work). Very rarely do I hear anything like a lost person search. Have heard of a brush fires, vandalism calls, & check on a camp site type calls. Hope that helps.

Here's the RadioReference page (includes repeater location listing):
The names of agencies are important so as not to create confusion. Besides that I grew up as a Forest Service brat, Daddy was a civil engineer for them during a 36 year career. There is not a federal agency called the "National Forest Service," it is the U.S. Forest Service (USFS). Sometimes people think of the National Park Service (NPS) and think since they manage national parks then whoever manages national forests must be the "National Forest Service," but this is not the case. It's been the "U.S. Forest Service" from the day the agency was created in 1905.

The federal Department of Agriculture seems to have a identity problem and 30 years ago, maybe 40, put out a memo that all official information would state the name of the agency was the "USDA Forest Service." That led to the inside joke that employees should say "us da Forest Service." Most agency employees, according to my dad, ignored the direction and call it the U.S. Forest Service. When an abbreviation is needed, paint/engrave "USFS" on property, when branding horses, etc. However, the USDA is shown on all letterheads, news releases and such. This USDA direction is not shared by other agencies in the Department of the Interior, for example the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is not require to show "USDI Fish and Wildlife Service." They manage national wildlife refuges and they are not called the "National Refuge Service" either. He has heard the USFS referred to as just "Forestry, "Forestry Department" and (not really) his all time favorite "The Forestry." When he complains about this last one, he says no one calls the U.S. Geological Service "The Geology," so why "The Forestry?" NPS employees notice it and often joke about that one with the USFS people as well. This paragraph was given to me by my Daddy, so excuse the curmudgeonly remarks!

I thought I would get on some other state's forums as I have very little information for the U.S. Forest Service's two eastern regions, R8 (Southern) and R9 (Eastern). Looks like I found a bit of info here, so thanks.
 
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Paysonscanner

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166.5625 is the USFS R8 and R9 fire tactical frequency. I think it used to be 169.9000. The new NTIA freq allocation includes 169.9000 as a repeater output freq., so both regions had to assign a new one. I would guess the fire workload up in that corner of the country is not all heavy, so maybe the freq is not used very often.
 

Paysonscanner

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One thing to keep in mind is that the Green Mountain National Forest also administers the Finger Lakes National Forest in New York. This is a relatively new national forest, having been previously called the "Hector Land Use Area" at some point. It is federal land and I don't recall the history of how it was transferred to the U.S. Forest Service for administration. It is now administered as a ranger district of the Green Mtn. NF.

A couple of months ago while doing a Google search, I came across a document that I find very helpful here in the west. It is a list, by region, then national forest that lists the administrative coding to all USFS units. This can be helpful as all unit designators (not to be confused with call signs, e.g. "KOC 423) of the USFS originate from this admin coding. This coding is shown on official records such as legal documents, special use permits, inventories, etc., but also forms the basis to what you will hear on the radio. For the Green Mtn. National Forest:

R9, Eastern Region
Forest #20, Green Mountain NF
01 Middlebury Ranger District
02 Manchester Ranger District
03 Hector Ranger District
05 Rochester Ranger District

When numbers are missing, such as 4 in the above list, it means that two or more districts were consolidated sometime in the past. Usually the number of the district that retains the ranger station, or district office for the two districts is the number that carries forward.

It should be noted that when two national forests are administered by one Forest Supervisor's office both forests (in a couple of cases three) all the forests will be in the official name of forest. So the Green Mtn. NF is officially the "Green Mountain and Finger Lakes National Forests."

The number of a district is used in all radio designators. If a forest uses numbers for personnel it will follow this format:

RD# - Function # - Individual Position #.

RD #'s are covered above. Functions are usually timber, range (grazing), recreation, lands (land exchanges, land donations, land purchases, special use permits, easements, rights of way), wildlife, watershed, soils, fire and minerals. The USFS does not have a nationwide standard for the numbers assigned to each function. Some forests, especially in northern Idaho and Montana don't use numbers for any person, just the last name. This has some distinct disadvantages, but that is another topic. Examples:

5-1 is likely the district ranger on t he Rochester Ranger District.
1-6 is the recreation primary staff assistant on the Middlebury Ranger District. 1-6-1 is the first person working for that the recreation primary staff assistant.
2-3 is the fire management officer on the Manchester Ranger District.

On ranger districts with a smaller workload in some functions timber, range and wildlife might be under one primary staff assistant. One function number is used for those positions.

Fire management uses names and numbers. Engines, dozers, water tenders, patrols, divisions (fire management officers), battalion chiefs (on radio "battalion" and are usually assistant fire management officers), captain (supervises engine crews, etc.) and chiefs (fire management officers for entire national forests). So Division 1 would be the fire management officer for the Middlebury Ranger District. Chief 1 would be the fire management officer in the Forest Supervisor's Office.

The USFS does have a national standard for how engines and water tenders are numbered:

First digit - Engine or Water Tender Type, second digit - ranger district number, third digit - individual apparatus number on ranger district. Example:

Engine 631 is a Type 6 on the Manchester Ranger District. If there is a second Type 6 on that ranger district it would be Engine 632. You might hear "Water Tender 251 and that would be a Type 2 tender on the Rochester Ranger District. Consider that the fire workload on the Green Mtn-Finger Lakes is likely low, there are probably no water tenders. If they need one it will be ordered from a local fire department or be under contract. This policy is 6-8 years old so any engines/water tenders that existed at the time are using an older format.

One other system is used in the Forest Service and it is the function name system, but I've only heard it used in California, R5. So you might hear "Ranger 1" (district ranger on district 1), or "Wildlife 31" (works for Wildlife 3, primary wildlife staff assistant on district 3).

I hope this information is helpful for someone to decipher where radio traffic is coming from and for understanding what is heard. I'm considering posting thread for each state that has national forests with all the forest/district numbers and unit designator format.
 

Paysonscanner

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Almost 2 yrs ago now, WMNF and GGMNF changed the input frequencies due to NTIA Rules.

WMNF was an easy find [already in the Wiki], but now the project is to match up the input tones to the Old and new Repeaters.

This past fall [Oct], while over in No.Conway on our way to Twin Mtn, we stopped at the Interval Scenic Vista
I ran across a new frequency and it was at the end of the day, reporting Weather for VT [didn't get it again, due to the weekend]
and being the end of the season the Campton dispatch was closed for the weekend.

Even sat down the road from the Campton Office 3-5p waiting.
But it must put out a great signal where ever 164.9375 is for me to get it in North Conway, if it is Campton

What I got was 164.9375 146.2 , my assumption on this is"
Campton was transmitting to another remote site that then keys up the Real input to GMNF repeaters [generally had seen this with UHF Links not VHF Links]

Or Campton is just able to get into only one of the higher sites for GMNF - looking at Topo maps, I am guessing this might be
Killington or Philadelphia is my guess as Equinox is to far south and too any mountains to have a direct path from Campton

Again, all assumptions and I didn't want to take the VTSP thread and HiJack it , so thanks for creating this thread.
This is not the first time that I (and late Hubby) have listened to a Forest Service radio system that used VHF Hi for linking a widespread system. The USFS used to have a dispatcher's network for each of the GACC's in California. So there was a "North Ops Net" and a "South Ops Net." It was a point to point network that functioned as a dispatch center intercom. Prior to the Forest Service and Cal Fire bringing computers into the workplace these nets carried a lot of traffic. There was a lot of work done on the phone as well. At our home in a small town on the western slope of the Sierra Nevada, we could hear both nets. South Zone used the VHF Hi frequencies for the longest mountain top to mountain top hops. They used UHF links for communications with remote bases in the area of each dispatch center as well as the GACC HQ in Riverside. I think CDF ECC's were also hooked up to it. The North Ops Net used VHF Lo for its longest hops. Our home was located such that we could such that we could pick up one of these hops from St. John Mountain on the Mendocino NF that was aimed toward peaks near the dispatch center on the Stanislaus National Forest and the Eldorado NF center in Camino, CA. We picked up a UHF link off a peak near the Sierra NF dispatch center in Clovis, CA. We could hear everything going on in the entire state. Then the USFS decided to put the network onto the existing CDF microwave dispatchers net, that had a lot of bells and whistles. They no longer had to spent money maintaining the two complex systems they had relied on for so many years. Then ordering resources went online and the microwave net voice traffic dropped. It was fun for us while it lasted though! Hubby found someone who provided diagrams of both systems and we dedicated two old scanners hooked up to beam antennas on the roof.

Anyway, here I go on and on about something in California on a Vermont thread. I just wanted to illustrate that single band linking on VHF-Hi has been used, even though it seems like a method no one would use.
 

Paysonscanner

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The Wiki piece provided link shows some "non-standard" tones, 173.8 and 186.9. Those will likely change to the 16 tone national standard that NIFC is following. I will save everyone the work of looking that up so here it is:

1 110.9
2 123.0
3 131.8
4 136.5
5 146.2
6 156.7
7 167.9
8 103.5
9 100.0
10 107.2
11 114.8
12 127.3
13 141.3
14 151.4
15 162.2
16 192.8

Some western counties have adopted this list as well. That makes things simple when county sheriff and county fire repeaters use the same tones, so that radio users don't have to look at some sort of tone crosswalk when the use an external tone box. "Let's see where is that list that shows our Tone 9 is their Tone 1, so with that in mind I think I can bring up that repeater listed as Tone 1 by switching my radio to Tone 9." These departments interface with the USFS, NPS, BLM, USFWS and the state's forestry agencies quite a bit. Some state fish and game agencies have adopted this list also. One of the issues raised in the investigation of the Yarnell Hill, Arizona fire fatality event (19 of 20 members of the Granite Mtn. Hotshots burned over and died) was "disparate tones." It is much safer and more straightforward when the state's Tone 6 frequency is the same as the federal agencies Tone 6 as well. Some GACC's and some units are dragging their feet on this, but I think it will eventually be ubiquitous. In the eastern and southern portions of the country the need for mutual aid for wildland incidents is not as frequent as it is in the west and system designers/radio techs probably don't see the point.
 
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