GMRS Channels 8-14 Power Question

[KI5FKE]

Hello, everyone! Hope that all is well. I have a question in reference to GMRS channels 8-14. I do understand that, in terms of wattage, one can transmit at ½ watt; however, I’ve read (on two other sites) that one can transmit at much more power (at least 5 W), if you’re using a programmable part 95 (or part 90) radio. Is that so?

I do own a part 95 radio that can transmit at 1 W low power and 4 W high power.

Thanks for your time!

 

[amphibian]

I would say you may want to go read the rules and re-read the channel chart again to educate and protect yourself.....https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/FRS/GMRS_combined_channel_chart

 

[ocn29rsc]

8-14 is straight out .50 watt regardless where your GMRS license or not.

J. Cody
ocn29rsc
Surfside Beach, Sc

 

[alcahuete]

Well...to answer your specific question, yes, Part 90 radios are CAPABLE of transmitting at higher power on channels 8-14, but it is not legal to do so, as noted by @ocn29rsc Part 90 radios aren't going to set the power to 0.5w automatically like the FRS/GMRS radios will.

 

[Hans13]

Hello, everyone! Hope that all is well. I have a question in reference to GMRS channels 8-14. I do understand that, in terms of wattage, one can transmit at ½ watt; however, I’ve read (on two other sites) that one can transmit at much more power (at least 5 W), if you’re using a programmable part 95 (or part 90) radio. Is that so?

I do own a part 95 radio that can transmit at 1 W low power and 4 W high power.

Thanks for your time!

Channels 8-14 are only allowed 0.5 Watts and must only be handheld portable units per the FCC; GMRS or FRS.

47 CFR § 95.567 - FRS transmit power.

§ 95.567 FRS transmit power.

Each FRS transmitter type must be designed such that the effective radiated power (ERP) on channels 8 through 14 does not exceed 0.5 Watts and the ERP on channels 1 through 7 and 15 through 22 does not exceed 2.0 Watts.

47 CFR § 95.1767 - GMRS transmitting power limits.

§ 95.1767 GMRS transmitting power limits.
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(c )467 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of hand-held portable units transmitting on the 467 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 0.5 Watt. Each GMRS transmitter type capable of transmitting on these channels must be designed such that the ERP does not exceed 0.5 Watt.

47 CFR § 95.1763 - GMRS channels.

§ 95.1763 GMRS channels.
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(d)467 MHz interstitial channels. Only hand-held portable units may transmit on these 7 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 467.5675, 467.5875, 467.6125, 467.6375, 467.6625, 467.6875, and 467.7125 MHz.

Section 95.563. FRS channels.
Section 95.1763. GMRS channels.

 

[ecps92]

And ensure that your radios 8-14 are the same 8-14 everyone else talks about, as FRS/GMRS do not have channel numbers
YMMV by each model or even vendor

I would say you may want to go read the rules and re-read the channel chart again to educate and protect yourself.....https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/FRS/GMRS_combined_channel_chart

 

[KI5FKE]

Thank you all for clarifying this for me! I'll leave those frequencies out of my radio since the lowest it can transmit is 1 W. You all are appreciated!

 

[UPMan]

And ensure that your radios 8-14 are the same 8-14 everyone else talks about, as FRS/GMRS do not have channel numbers
YMMV by each model or even vendor

All major vendors (Uniden, Cobra, Midland, Motorola) use exactly the same channel numbering scheme for 22-channel radios (which are now all reclassified as FRS, not FRS/GMRS). As mentioned, higher power (up to 2W ERP) are only allowed on 1-7 and 15-22 when type accepted as an FRS radio. 8-14 are 500 mW ERP only.

Now, GMRS service radios it is legal to use higher wattage on all the channels, but they do not include the FRS frequencies used on 8-14 (and on those, the channel numbering is different). GMRS also allows for off-unit antennas, mobile and base radios, and repeater operation. But, GMRS requires an explicit license (you have to pay for and get a call sign to legally operate them) whereas FRS is entirely license-by-rule on all 22 channels (i.e. if you follow the rules you have a license and don't have to pay nor do you get a call sign).

 

[Hans13]

Now, GMRS service radios it is legal to use higher wattage on all the channels, but they do not include the FRS frequencies used on 8-14 (and on those, the channel numbering is different). GMRS also allows for off-unit antennas, mobile and base radios, and repeater operation. But, GMRS requires an explicit license (you have to pay for and get a call sign to legally operate them) whereas FRS is entirely license-by-rule on all 22 channels (i.e. if you follow the rules you have a license and don't have to pay nor do you get a call sign).

{emphasis added by me}

I might be misunderstanding your post UPMan, but it looks like you stated that all GMRS channels now are the higher wattage and those channels do not include the 8-14 lower wattage channels. AFAIK, GMRS now includes ALL 22 channels (0.5W limit on 8-14) plus 8 repeater inputs.

§ 95.1763 GMRS channels.

The GMRS is allotted 30 channels - 16 main channels and 14 interstitial channels. GMRS stations may transmit on any of the channels as indicated below.

 

[scanmanmi]

It's very confusing to have a .5W limit in the middle of the channels. I think it has to do with the possibility of a repeater output being 5 MHZ from channels 1-7. The assumption is that the repeater will have a 5 MHZ offset but that is not necessarily the law as discussed here https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/gmrs-freq-pair.334497/
I kind of see these things as a voluntary recommendation, like the speed limit.

 

[nd5y]

It's very confusing to have a .5W limit in the middle of the channels. I think it has to do with the possibility of a repeater output being 5 MHZ from channels 1-7.

No. The 1/2 watt power limit on the 467 MHz interstitial channels is to help reduce interference from bubble pack radios to repeater inputs that are 12.5 kHz either side of the interstitial channels. It has nothing to do with the 5 MHz repeater offset or using non-standard pairs for a repeater.

 

[Hans13]

I've always been told that the reason for the 0.5W limit is because those 467 frequencies lie in between the repeater inputs and could cause interference with higher wattage. That's why they are called 467 MHz interstitial channels.

(Edit: Your post popped in there between, nd5y. I didn't mean to repeat your statement.)

 

[UPMan]

FRS and GMRS are two separate services. However, they share some frequencies.

FRS is a 22-channel service that only allows for 2W on 1-7 and 15-22, and .5W on 8-14. You cannot use a detachable antenna. You cannot operate through repeaters. It is license-by-rule with no call sign requirement.

GMRS is a different service that shares 14 of its channels with FRS (in FRS they are numbered 1-7 and 15-22). GMRS rules are different from FRS, in that GMRS allows for higher power, detacheable antennas, base/mobile radios, and repeater operation. It requires an explicit license and call sign.

For two decades, FRS was only a 14-channel, .5W ERP service which shared channels 1-7 with GMRS (but still only at .5W). In the early 2000's the FCC allowed manufacturers to build radios that included both GMRS and FRS type acceptance, which opened the manufacturers to using 22 channels, adding higher power channels 15-22 and allowing for higher power on 1-7. Since 8-14 were FRS-only service frequencies, they were still limited to .5W ERP. However, to legally use channels 1-7 or 15-22, the user was supposed to get a GMRS license and only use channels 8-14 if they did not have a GMRS license. Virtually all "FRS" radios on the market, today, were built under those rules, so the packaging, manuals, etc are somewhat confusing, as they are no longer in sync with the actual rules, which changed a couple of years ago.

The FCC now forbids the combination of license-by-rule service and explicit license service channels in a single radio. However, at the same time, they expanded FRS from 14 to 22 channels and codified the rules to match what was actually being built. I had a lot to do with proposing and promoting this form of the changes, including 3 face-to-face meetings with both the technical and legal groups at the FCC in D. C.

Later this year, all "grandfathered" radios will have to have new FCC grants that are single-service, FRS-only grants rather than the dual-service grants they have today.

GMRS does not and has never included FRS channels 8-14. You cannot legally operate on those frequencies on anything other than a radio that has type acceptance for FRS as reflected in the radio's FCC grant.

 

[nd5y]

GMRS does not and has never included FRS channels 8-14.

That changed in 2017.
Now all of the former FRS-only channels are shared with GMRS.
§95.1763 GMRS channels.

Power limit on 467 MHz interstitial GMRS channels is 1/2 W just like FRS.
§95.1767 GMRS transmitting power limits.

 

[UPMan]

I apologize. It has been almost 2 years since that rules change and I had totally forgotten that they were, indeed, included to GMRS, as well. But, the "new" GMRS frequencies are still limited to .5W ERP (eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations)

 

[jaspence]

FRS and GMRS are two separate services. However, they share some frequencies.[/QUOTE]

Your explanation is good, but some people need to read slower or read it again. Maybe it's the proper English that is confusing them.

 

[Hans13]

I apologize. It has been almost 2 years since that rules change and I had totally forgotten that they were, indeed, included to GMRS, as well. But, the "new" GMRS frequencies are still limited to .5W ERP (eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations)

Thanks for clarifying. My mind also slips sometimes into the old rules. It's all good.

 

[Hans13]

That changed in 2017.
Now all of the former FRS-only channels are shared with GMRS.
§95.1763 GMRS channels.

Power limit on 467 MHz interstitial GMRS channels is 1/2 W just like FRS.
§95.1767 GMRS transmitting power limits.

And I even posted those over and over... That's why I was scratching my head over his statement. I figured he either made a mistake in typing or was temporarily confused.

 

[Hans13]

FRS and GMRS are two separate services. However, they share some frequencies.

Your explanation is good, but some people need to read slower or read it again. Maybe it's the proper English that is confusing them.

The correct answer is confusing to whom? Not me.