GMRS North Country Repeaters?

[mjcroninnh]

I have been recently reading about GMRS so I've tried using my scanner to monitor for GMRS repeater frequencies in northern NH. Some online research suggests that the only GMRS repeaters north of the notches might be Monroe625 which I just might catch the eastern edge of it's range. My scanning log suggests only Simplex traffic so far. Is my initial conclusion on the scarcity of GMRS repeaters in the north country accurate?

Thanks in advance for any input and corrective guidance.

 

[mmckenna]

www.mygmrs.com is one of the better tools out there for finding repeaters that may be in your area.

Repeater users are not required to list repeaters at that site, and many don't, but it's a place to start looking.

Scanning logs may not be accurate since the 7 primary GMRS frequencies used for simplex are also the same as the repeater output frequencies. Trying to hear traffic on the repeater input frequencies may not be very reliable.

 

[jmarcel66]

Maybe yes, maybe no. myGMRS.com is the best resource for GMRS info, but repeater owners are not required to report their machines. Scanning is kind of the best plan.

John M

 

[mjcroninnh]

www.mygmrs.com is one of the better tools out there for finding repeaters that may be in your area.

Repeater users are not required to list repeaters at that site, and many don't, but it's a place to start looking.

Scanning logs may not be accurate since the 7 primary GMRS frequencies used for simplex are also the same as the repeater output frequencies. Trying to hear traffic on the repeater input frequencies may not be very reliable.

Thank you. myGMRS.com found only the Monroe repeater north of the Lakes. I am doing a Discovery on the 8 repeater frequencies over the next 24 hours. Five hours in all I am getting is some little kids and two guys testing range on what I beleive are two handhelds to my north. All vey scratchy and all undoubtedly Simplex.

 

[ecps92]

Keep in mind, anything North of Line A, you should not find US/GMRS on
462.650 MHz, 467.650 MHz, 462.700 MHz, and 467.700 MHz.

you can use this map and Zoom for better location of Line A

US FCC 70cm 50W PEP amateur radio restriction - Google My Maps

http://www.arrl.org/us270

www.google.com

but for NH it's roughly North of Lincoln, Jackson and Bradford

 

[mjcroninnh]

Keep in mind, anything North of Line A, you should not find US/GMRS on
462.650 MHz, 467.650 MHz, 462.700 MHz, and 467.700 MHz.

you can use this map and Zoom for better location of Line A

US FCC 70cm 50W PEP amateur radio restriction - Google My Maps

http://www.arrl.org/us270

www.google.com

but for NH it's roughly North of Lincoln, Jackson and Bradford

ecps92: Thank you for replying; I have not come across the Line A restriction yet in my reading. I am north of Line A. 462.650 and 462.700 are two of the frequencies I am scanning and have not heard anything at all on those two frequencies.

I appreciate your information.

 

[ecps92]

ecps92: Thank you for replying; I have not come across the Line A restriction yet in my reading. I am north of Line A. 462.650 and 462.700 are two of the frequencies I am scanning and have not heard anything at all on those two frequencies.

I appreciate your information.

more Line A, B, C and D (Line Dancing) info from the World Famous RR Wiki

Line A - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Also, where are you in the Great North (more specific) and please update your profile as well... Thanks

 

[tweiss3]

For what it's worth, the Line A/C restriction is no longer being printed on the license.

 

[jmarcel66]

I'm still in the research phase, but it appears as early as 2021, the US and Canada lifted the Line A restriction specifically for GMRS.

 

[mjcroninnh]

more Line A, B, C and D (Line Dancing) info from the World Famous RR Wiki

Line A - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Also, where are you in the Great North (more specific) and please update your profile as well... Thanks

Thanks for the additional reference. Profile updated.

 

[ecps92]

I'm still in the research phase, but it appears as early as 2021, the US and Canada lifted the Line A restriction specifically for GMRS.

Found that as well from other forums/anti-social media, yet Nothing found within the FCC

 

[ecps92]

Thanks for the additional reference. Profile updated.

Thanks,

asked as if in/around Randolph there used to be a 462.5750 that was linked into the AMC UHF (Business) on Mt Washington
have not been in/around Randolph for years to check/listen

 

[jmarcel66]

We still have some codeplugs in the state that list "RMC" as 462.575 Simplex only, and RMC does still exist. What their communications status is, I don't know.

 

[mjcroninnh]

Thanks,

asked as if in/around Randolph there used to be a 462.5750 that was linked into the AMC UHF (Business) on Mt Washington
have not been in/around Randolph for years to check/listen

I pick up AMC hut to base tranmissions off Cannon (461.500) and MW (463.950) pretty regularly.

 

[jmarcel66]

After digging around for awhile and some AI assistance, here is the long hand version of what apparently was determined by the US and Canada which now removes Line A restrictions for GMRS. It apparently came from ending the 1962 treaty and replacing it with a new one that removed the retrictive language.

The FCC Rule Cleanup: 47 CFR § 95.1761

Historically, the limitation forcing GMRS hardware manufacturers and operators to comply with cross-border coordination was written directly into the FCC's equipment certification guidelines. [1, 2]

• The Old Obsolete Text: Under the old rules, 47 CFR § 95.1761(e) stated that GMRS transmitter certification was conditional upon the licensee restricting operation near the border. It read: "Licensees a certain distance from the US/Canada border must certify compliance with Line A restrictions...". [1, 2]
• The Current Cleaned-up Text: As part of the FCC's ongoing regulatory updates, Section 95.1761(e) was completely scrubbed and rewritten. If you check the active Part 95 Personal Radio Services rules today, Line A and Line C are no longer referenced anywhere in the general or GMRS-specific rules. [1, 2, 3]

3. Historical Database Mistake Context

According to regulatory history archived in amateur and personal radio consensus spaces, the strict association of Line A with GMRS was partially a legacy system artifact. [1]

• Frequency Scope: Line A restrictions were originally designed for VHF Land Mobile Services (Part 90).
• The Error: Because GMRS operates in the UHF spectrum (462–467 MHz), it was technically outside the core intent of those specific VHF limitations. However, decades ago, the FCC Universal Licensing System (ULS) utilized an overlapping automated database template that stamped the "Line A Condition" onto many GMRS licenses by default. The 2021 treaty modernization resolved this historical technical discrepancy. [1, 2]

Here is the FCC Rule itself that once had the Line A restriction, which is now gone.

§ 95.1761 GMRS transmitter certification.

(a) Each GMRS transmitter (a transmitter that operates or is intended to operate in the GMRS) must be certified in accordance with this subpart and part 2 of this chapter.

(b) A grant of equipment certification for the GMRS will not be issued for any GMRS transmitter type that fails to comply with the applicable rules in this subpart.

(c) No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure.

(d) Effective December 27, 2017, the Commission will no longer issue a grant of equipment authorization for hand-held portable unit transmitter types under both this subpart (GMRS) and subpart B of this part (FRS).

(e) Effective December 27, 2017, the Commission will no longer issue a grant of equipment authorization under this subpart (GMRS) for hand-held portable units if such units meet the requirements to be certified under subpart B of this part (FRS).

 

[mmckenna]

Part of the Line A/C restrictions had to do with the difference in frequency allocations between Canada and the US.

Canada didn't have a GMRS service, and those frequencies were used by business users north of the border. The Line A/C thing was to keep GMRS users from interfering with business users.

When Canada added their FRS service, it was the original 14 channels like the US had. Eventually they added the other 8 simplex channels to align with the US. The Line A/C thing kind of became a moot point. Took a while, but eventually the FCC has dropped it.

 

[mjcroninnh]

Thanks all for jumping into the thread. The Line A portion has been enlightning.

Over the course of the day I picked up a bunch of Simplex transmissions; lots of little kids and a couple of hikers. I do beleive I picked up something from the Spruce Mountain repeater over in Woodstock Maine. Very scratchy, but there were call signs and reception reports which would lead me to beleive there is a higher chance they were GSMR operators interacting with the repeater versus Simplex.

The line of sight to the Spruce repeater is about 52 miles and there is some higher terrain along that line. My antenna is only 15' off the ground, so a scratchy catch seems possible at best. Beyond that I think Simplex close by are going to be my only GSMR receptions.

Thanks all for the input.