• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

GMRS Pirates using P25 with encryption NY/NJ

Status
Not open for further replies.

bill4long

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
1,459
Location
Indianapolis
What I’m saying is if they allowed Digital on GMRS, how does that affect anyone? Those that want to use digital use digital and those that don’t do not. Those that want to chit chat with others that they don’t know, can buy both. Those that don’t want to chit chat with others, can buy either analog or digital depending on their wants and add filters so that they don’t hear anyone else which is what they do with analog anyway.

I don’t see how allowing digital is forcing anyone to do anything.

Well, I think I understand his point. It's a lot easier (and cheaper) for analog users using CTCSS or DCS to figure out who is interfering, thus making cooperation easier. With digital, if you allow, say, DMR and P25, then if there is interference that requires cooperation to fix, the DMR user is probably going to have to get a P25 radio just to figure out who the other party is. That's expensive. So, I would have to come down on the side of a single digital standard, not a free for all. Given the efficiency and low cost options of DMR, I would probably be in favor of that. (If anyone is burning red hot with the desire to use P25 or NXDN or whatever, just get a land-mobile license and be done with it.) Of course, analog users will be in the same boat if digital users are interfering, regardless of the standard. So I think it makes more sense if the FCC created some GMRS digital-only channels with a single digital standard. That would get us to digital, leave the analog users as they are, and simplify cooperation.

Come on, FCC! Give us GMRS-D!
 
Last edited:

Marine_Cotporal

Simplex Kid
Joined
Dec 10, 2015
Messages
68
Well, I think I understand his point. It's a lot easier (and cheaper) for users using CTCSS or DCS to figure out who is interfering, thus making cooperation easier. With digital, if you allow, say, DMR and P25, then if there is interference that requires cooperation to fix, the DMR user is probably going to have to get a P25 radio just to figure out who the other party is. That's expensive. So, I would have to come down on the side of a single digital standard, not a free for all. Given the efficiency and low cost of DMR, I would probably be in favor of that.
At work I have an issued radio on railroad frequencies. I also carry a MURS radio to chit chat with my partner while working the yard for ourselves so that certain things aren’t heard over official frequencies. Meet me on such and such track. Take that train by yourself. I’ll meet you there with the other locomotive. This brake is stuck. Drag this car towards you. Things that you need to do to get the job done but aren’t officiously allowed to do.

Anyway we were on MURS 5 for many months with pl codes. Everything was fine until it wasn’t. A lot of our transmissions weren’t getting through. Lots of interference.He wasn’t getting some of my transmissions and I wasn’t getting some of his. I turned off the pl codes and it turns out some girl (probably a kid) that lives nearby was getting into our conversations. She was constantly keying up saying stupid stuff. Sometimes she would key up for many minutes. I don’t know if that in itself would cause our coms to drop but regardless, we solved the problem.

We went to another channel. MURS 3. She didn’t follow over. We still use that frequency.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,618
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
What I’m saying is if they allowed Digital on GMRS, how does that affect anyone? Those that want to use digital use digital and those that don’t do not. Those that want to chit chat with others that they don’t know, can buy both. Those that don’t want to chit chat with others, can buy either analog or digital depending on their wants and add filters so that they don’t hear anyone else which is what they do with analog anyway.

I don’t see how allowing digital is forcing anyone to do anything.

Yeah, what bill said.

I don't really care which digital mode they choose. But different non-compatible digital modes in a personal use radio service with limited channels is not a good idea.
Each manufacturer selling their own version of digital GMRS. DMR, dPMR, NXDN, P25, then add in proprietary features (a-la Motorola) to lock users into their brand of radio. Most consumers can't tell you the difference between CB channel 7, FRS channel 7, GMRS channel 7 or TV channel 7, add in several different digital modes to the mix, and the FCC will screw up GMRS just like they did when they allowed dual service FRS/GMRS radios.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. We don't need to revisit that.
 

Marine_Cotporal

Simplex Kid
Joined
Dec 10, 2015
Messages
68
Yeah, what bill said.

I don't really care which digital mode they choose. But different non-compatible digital modes in a personal use radio service with limited channels is not a good idea.
Each manufacturer selling their own version of digital GMRS. DMR, dPMR, NXDN, P25, then add in proprietary features (a-la Motorola) to lock users into their brand of radio. Most consumers can't tell you the difference between CB channel 7, FRS channel 7, GMRS channel 7 or TV channel 7, add in several different digital modes to the mix, and the FCC will screw up GMRS just like they did when they allowed dual service FRS/GMRS radios.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. We don't need to revisit that.
It’s the same with HAM. If I want to use a certain format, then I use that format. Whether it be P25 or anything else. It’s what I choose to use knowing that I will not be able to communicate with everyone else. As far as others not knowing the difference, that’s on them. I’m not there to communicate with them. Nor are they with me. There can always be an analog fallback built into these radios for interoperability or not. The box will say if it does have interoperability.

I do not know why they have to be compatible with each other.

Not trying to be hardheaded here. Just realistic. What do my needs have to do with anyone else’s? Why can’t Motorola make if allowed their version of digital for me to use on GRMS for me to buy for my family to use? It would be a niche product anyway. You get what you need or want to use.
 

bill4long

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
1,459
Location
Indianapolis
It’s the same with HAM

As a ham and GMRS user I have to disagree. Ham radio users are typically more technically savvy or at least are friends with other hams who are. Ham radio is an experimental hobby, that is not used for business, with vast amount of frequencies to choose from, with band plans that most hams adhere to, or at least know about. Repeaters are generally coordinated with an accepted coordination body. Etc. Etc. Not at all the same as GMRS.
 

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
15,233
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
Around here most of the GMRS users seem to be techno duds, they don't know much but think they do but they really don't and its a dumping ground for those that can't handle or don't want to tackle an amateur license. Many of them run Motorola hand helds programmed by others with MDC bleeps and it sounds like one tiny step above Class D CB. The rest run converted amateur radios. They cuss, they toss out racial slurs and they are pretty low class from what I gather. But most of them do ID with their GMRS callsign, and at least that's something positive. But it doesn't cancel out all the other crap they do.



As a ham and GMRS user I have to disagree. Ham radio users are typically more technically savvy or at least are friends with other hams who are. Ham radio is an experimental hobby, that is not used for business, with vast amount of frequencies to choose from, with band plans that most hams adhere to, or at least know about. Repeaters are generally coordinated with an accepted coordination body. Etc. Etc. Not at all the same as GMRS.
 

Skypilot007

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
2,537
Location
Medford, NJ
Band opening tonight. The Bluecom repeaters are coming in loud and clear in south Jersey. They are in analog mode tonight, no digital. However the two people chatting about their police motorcycles are obviously cops or ex-cops and every other word out of their mouths is the F bomb. No one has ID'd themselves in over an hour with the exception of MDC bursts. What a bunch of clowns.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,618
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
It’s the same with HAM. If I want to use a certain format, then I use that format. Whether it be P25 or anything else. It’s what I choose to use knowing that I will not be able to communicate with everyone else. As far as others not knowing the difference, that’s on them. I’m not there to communicate with them. Nor are they with me. There can always be an analog fallback built into these radios for interoperability or not. The box will say if it does have interoperability.

There's some substantial differences between amateur and GMRS. If you look at the intended use of the two services, you'll see what I mean.

I do not know why they have to be compatible with each other.

I think that is something the FCC will sort out when/if they decide to allow digital. We will all have our chance to file comments.
As for me, I really don't care either way.
I think the FCC will care when they start looking at the proposals. Putting digital and analog users on the same channels comes with some challenges. Analog radios with tone squelches will often false trigger with digital signals. Not sure what the FCC will do about that. Hopefully refarm GMRS to narrow band and add additional channels I know that'll get the purists upset, but it needs to be done. But then that creates an issue with FRS users.

Not trying to be hardheaded here. Just realistic. What do my needs have to do with anyone else’s? Why can’t Motorola make if allowed their version of digital for me to use on GRMS for me to buy for my family to use? It would be a niche product anyway. You get what you need or want to use.

I personally don't really mind what you use. I think the FCC will.

I guess we will just have to see what happens in 10, 20 years, or whenever the FCC decides to take this on.
 

ecps92

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
14,360
Location
Taxachusetts
And even now, with Analog and Analog not cooperating.

Who even drops PL/DPL anymore to see if the channel is in use with another user on a different PL/DPL :(

"Its my Privacy Tone, who the hell are you on my tone " :giggle:
Not sure I understand your statement.
I have no issue with the FCC allowing digital on GMRS. Until then, without the experimental license linked to above, it's not really an option.
Analog and digital will need to cooperate. I don't see the FCC suddenly forcing all GMRS users to digital. It's going to be a gradual progression. Trying to force analog and digital users to cooperate isn't going to go well. If they start allowing any/all digital modes on GMRS, it's just going to be a bigger mess.
GMRS was and is intended to be a shared service. Users cooperating will be necessary to keep it that way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top