Going to the fall's.

[kc8rak]

Hello everyone. I live in Cleveland Ohio and am thinking about going to see the fall's (Niagra Falls) and going over to the Canada side also. I am a ham radio operator also. What laws do i need to know about? I have a hand held scanner. Also a 2 meter/440 mobile radio.

Thanks
John

 

[wendall]

do not forget the barrel?

 

[Al42]

You'll need Canadian authorization to operate ham gear in Canada. It'll probably take a few weeks to get the paperwork done. I don't know about scanners - people there use them so they must be legal, but don't depend on me for that.

 

[Saint]

re-scanner in Canada

You'll need Canadian authorization to operate ham gear in Canada. It'll probably take a few weeks to get the paperwork done. I don't know about scanners - people there use them so they must be legal, but don't depend on me for that.

It is legal to have a scanner in Canada, if you are taking it across the border then make sure you have the paper work for the scanner just in case they asked you to prove where you got it from, receipt. Also if your going to the New Casino or for that matter any of the casinos then don't think about brining the scanner into the casino you will be escorted of the property in a New York Minute.
Steve

 

[Al42]

Also if your going to the New Casino or for that matter any of the casinos then don't think about brining the scanner into the casino you will be escorted of the property in a New York Minute.
Steve

As opposed to the casinos in Connecticut. Foxwoods' security TGs sometimes have interesting things going on, and they ddn't seem to have a problem with my 396 (or my cell phone or my Yaesu VX-5) hanging on my belt.

 

[DaveNF2G]

You'll need Canadian authorization to operate ham gear in Canada. It'll probably take a few weeks to get the paperwork done.

Have the Rules changed recently?

We have full reciprocity between the U.S. and Canada for licensed hams. All you need is to have your ham license with you when operating - on either side of the border.

 

[n4voxgill]

My vehicle was searched by canadian officials going into canada. I had a two meter radio and a scannr mounted in a floor console. They asked me what they were, I told them, they said go ahead. Did not ask to see my license. It was funny they would not take a military id card from one of my passengers as proof of citizenship, wanted a birth certificate. Checked him out on the comptuer before letting us in. I had a passport that they accepted. They hassled us for about 30 minutes. Coming back into the us, our customs asked us if we bought anything, I told them no and waived us through no other questions.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Interesting experience you had, Gill. In my experience, it's usually harder getting back into New York (more questions, etc.) than going to Ontario.

 

[MrAv]

I live along the Canadian border. Nothing special for hams entering Canada. As for scanners, well they cannot be ON in the vehicle you are driving. They do have some laws as to what and where you can use scanners. Just don't remember them. Too many laws between US and Canada. Mostly if you do not create a problem, they just leave you alone.

 

[mbstone99]

NY/Ontario Scanner Laws

There is no laws regarding scanners here in Canada regarding having then other them that you can't divulge what you hear to anyone. As for going through New York they have a law down there where it is illegal to have a scanner in your car. I have driving across the border back and forth hundreds of time with a scanner (and many times on but very very low volume) and haven't been hassled about it. They they saw it and ask what it is and i would tell them and that would be it.

Matt

 

[Al42]

As for going through New York they have a law down there where it is illegal to have a scanner in your car.

The law specifically exempts hams, as long as the scanner is operated "in connection with" ham equipment. "In connection with" isn't defined, so it's up to the person using it to decide whether he's using it in connection with his ham equipment.

 

[mbstone99]

NY State Laws

Oh thanks I forgot to mention that part of it as well.

Matt

 

[DaveNF2G]

The law specifically exempts hams, as long as the scanner is operated "in connection with" ham equipment. "In connection with" isn't defined, so it's up to the person using it to decide whether he's using it in connection with his ham equipment.

Actually, it's up to the police officer who pulls him over to decide what it means. At least that's how a lot of local cops operate around the state.

 

[Al42]

Actually, it's up to the police officer who pulls him over to decide what it means. At least that's how a lot of local cops operate around the state.

Lucky for us that a lot of judges don't. (A ham is an expert witness - a cop's testimony about ham radio is usually not only worthless but inadmissable - if you know to challenge it.)

 

[DaveNF2G]

Unfortunately, with respect to NY's V&T scanner law, an innocent driver must go to court and prove that he should not have been arrested in the first place. "Presumed innocent until proven guilty" is a legal fiction anyway, but how fictitious it truly is becomes readily apparent in this situation.

If the officer decides to confiscate the scanner, traffic court cannot order it returned to its owner. So, besides having to answer the bogus charge, the driver might have to initiate a civil lawsuit to recover his property (although some hams have gotten their scanners back simply by asking the police to return them).

 

[Al42]

So, besides having to answer the bogus charge, the driver might have to initiate a civil lawsuit to recover his property (although some hams have gotten their scanners back simply by asking the police to return them).

The amount you recover in the false arrest suit (being issued a ticket is done in lieu of arrest, so the suit has merit) might make it worth losing your scanner for a short time.

(Don't the AAB hearing officers have anything running up their backs up there?)

 

[trainman111]

I hate to bring up a new topic, but I just wanted to clarify the scanning laws for New York State. (I know its a lot to read but its the whole thing) They are as follows:

Section 397 - New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law

The following is the complete text of section 397 of the New York
State vehicle and traffic law. This section governs the use of
mobile scanners in motor vehicles. Following the statute is a brief
summary of the case law relevant to this section.

This text is from _McKinney's Consolidated Laws of New York Annotated_.


397. EQUIPPING MOTOR VEHICLES WITH RADIO RECEIVING SETS CAPABLE OF
RECEIVING SIGNALS ON THE FREQUENCIES ALLOCATED FOR POLICE USE.

A person, not a police officer or peace officer, acting pursuant to
his special duties, who equips a motor vehicle with a radio receiving
set capable of receiving signals on the frequencies allocated for
police use or knowingly uses a motor vehicle so equipped or who in
any way knowingly interferes with the transmission of radio messages
by the police without having first secured a permit to do so from the
person authorized to issue such a permit by the local governing body
or board of the city, town or village in which such person resides,
or where such person resides outside of a city, or village in a
county having a county police department by the board of supervisors
of such county, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not
exceeding one thousand dollars, or imprisonment not exceeding six
months, or both. Nothing in this section contained shall be
construed to apply to any person who holds a valid amateur radio
operator's license issued by the federal communications commission
and who operates a duly licensed portable mobile transmitter and in
connection therewith a receiver or receiving set on frequencies
exclusively allocated by the federal communications commission to
duly licensed radio amateurs.

---------------------------------

Annotated Case Law


1. Constitutionality.

People v. McGee, 1978, 97 Misc.2d 360, 411 N.Y.S.2d 514.

Ruled that section 397 is constitutional and not a preemption of
an act of Congress.

2. Legal Purpose.

People v. McGee, op. cit.

Stated that the rationale for the statute was to prevent criminals
from monitoring police broadcasts in their automobiles, prior to
or after the commission of a crime. It further stated that the
statue protects police radios from jamming and other interference.

3. Definition of Radio Receivers.

People v. Moore, 1978, 92 Misc.2d 807, 401 N.Y.S.2d 440.
People v. Faude, 1976, 88 Misc.2d 434, 388 N.Y.S.2d 562.

These two cases established that radar detectors used to avoid
police speed traps were not radio receivers because they could not
translate the radar signals into a comprehensible form.

People v. Verdino, 1974 78 Misc.2d 719, 357 N.Y.S.2d 769.

This critical case established that the statue applies to any
radio that is capable of receiving police signals whether or not
the radio was actually being operated. In this case Verdino was
caught with a scanner that operated from the cigarette lighter but
was not plugged in at the time he was stopped. The court ruled
that the radio was still "capable" of receiving signals thus
making it illegal.

4. Issuance of Permits.

1975, Op.Atty.Gen (Inf.) 311.

The Attorney General issued an opinion that county boards can
designate a person to issue permits only in counties that have a
county police department established by a county charter.

5. Confiscated Equipment.

1976, Op.Atty.Gen. (Inf.) 255.

The Attorney General issued the opinion that a confiscated radio
is not contraband and must be returned to the individual in
original condition even if that person has been convicted under
section 397.


......Basically, it means you can't be listening to police communications in a motor vehicle.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Basically, it means you can't be listening to police communications in a motor vehicle.

That's quite a leap. There is no separate offense in the law for actually listening to police frequencies in a car. So, if you truly are exempt from the "equip" part of the statute, then nobody can charge you with actual monitoring.

Visit http://nf2g.com and look under Electronic Publications for a link to a detailed legal analysis of the New York situation by a college professor who is also a ham operator - me.

 

[Al42]

......Basically, it means you can't be listening to police communications in a motor vehicle.

Nope - as the law and court opinions you posted say, it means that you can't have a device in the car that's capable of receiving police communications, whether it's actually receiving them or not, unless you're an on-duty police officer, or a ham using equipment in conjunction with a licensed ham station. If you do, you're in violation.

 

[trainman111]

You are both correct. I am sorry for not being more precise