Golden Gate National Recreation

[K6CDO]

What is this, beat up Bob Kelty day?, I know you're trying to make a point that what's listed in the unit number list is not entirely correct now, it may have been when posted or when copied from a copyrighted publication, but I think the Bob Kelty did and still does us scanner fans a huge service with his publications.. ...

Dave is correct. One aspect to think about is that authors of copyrighted information such as scanner frequency guides will often slip in an erroneous entry to detect those who plagiarize. Over the four decades Gene Costin was publishing Gene Hughes' Police Call Southern California detail edition, he listed 33.66 (the old low band input to the CalEMA Fire & Rescue Net channel 2) as being used by the "Riverside County Fire Marshal." Others (like Bob) have used information developed from a network of trusted "eyes and ears" in the publication of their lists.

The problem with printed-on-pulp lists like Gene's or Bob's publications is that they are only as accurate as the information developed at the exact point in time they went to print. The beauty of the RadioReference database is that it is a living collaboration, with ongoing peer review and updating.

Don

 

[inigo88]

No Dave... this is not beat up on Bob Kelty day... I've bought his guides too and appreciate the work he's done. But I noticed the incorrect unit ID list we have in one of his books (the federal book?). Considering the sheer volume of information he has published I'd say a small mistake (or deliberate error) here or there is a pretty darn good track record.

 

[WayneH]

Since the old system is pretty much obsolete here are some official channel lineups from old radios....

[Non-LE Radio]
CH1 Maint North
CH2 Maint South
CH3 Maint 3
CH4 Presidio
CH5 Admin North
CH6 Admin South
CH7 408.4000 CSQ "DIRECT 7"
CH8 417.7250 CSQ "DIRECT 8"
CH9 418.0750 CSQ "DIRECT 9"
CH10 Maint Call Group
CH11 Admin Call Group
CH12 Alcatraz
CH13 SF Maritime Nat
CH14 Dynamic Regroup
CH15 ICS
CH16 Comms Center

[Public Safety Radio]
CH1 LAW ENF1
CH2 LAW ENF2
CH3 FIRE/EMS
CH4 TAC-1
CH5 TAC-2
CH6 PS Group
CH7 DIRECT 7
CH8 EXTENDER
CH9 DIRECT 9
CH10 MAINTGRP
CH11 ADMINGRP
CH12 Alcatraz
CH13 SAFR
CH14 DYNAMIC (not a TG; "dynamic regrouping")
CH15 ICS
CH16 DISPATCH

- --
Re: Kelty's books
I appreciate what he's done but times have changed and he no longer has the sources he used to. He's okay to stay up to date for local stuff but his State and Federal books are outdated. I can base this from knowing what's really out there. Lets just leave the discussion there or take it to its own thread.

 

[inigo88]

Awesome! Thanks Wayne!

Stinson used DIRECT 7, and I believe SF Maritime Historic Park used DIRECT 9. Non-LE personnel (Maintenance, Interp Rangers) contacted comm center in emergency situations (i.e. med-aids) on Ch 16 "DISPATCH." I believe Interpretation Rangers in Muir Woods used Ch 5 (heard it referenced by name as a channel number only) which corresponds to "Admin North," however Interp Rangers are obviously not admin personnel. So I guess they assigned channels based on what was available on the system.

 

[Retired911Guy]

Awesome! Thanks Wayne!

Stinson used DIRECT 7, and I believe SF Maritime Historic Park used DIRECT 9. Non-LE personnel (Maintenance, Interp Rangers) contacted comm center in emergency situations (i.e. med-aids) on Ch 16 "DISPATCH." I believe Interpretation Rangers in Muir Woods used Ch 5 (heard it referenced by name as a channel number only) which corresponds to "Admin North," however Interp Rangers are obviously not admin personnel. So I guess they assigned channels based on what was available on the system.

This afternoon I heard Muir Woods Shop TG 518 call another confirmed North Maint unit and say go to chl 7, NO chls grants were given on Tam, however the affiliation list showed the same MWs Shop RID about 5 seconds later on TG 521. Heard nothing on the OLD Tac chls, but then handhelds on 400 mhz simplex at or near MWs would be a stretch to get over the hill to my place. May be the equivalent of one of the old sys maint tac chls.

Dave

 

[Retired911Guy]

Just heard the mystery TG 175 this time very clear as to IDs, CAND LEAD, he spelled out C-A-N-D lead

Called radio cks for C-A-N-D 1 to 10, only 4 to 10 answered.
Then USA 1, 2 & 3, only 2 & 3 answered.
Then C-A-N-D PT, no answer
Then "Joint Emergency Response Task Force Team - test complete", no answer

EDIT: RIDs 705301-705314 (if they can be tracked by someone who has a large list of RIDs)

(from Tam)
Dave

 

[jlanfn]

Just heard the mystery TG 175 this time very clear as to IDs, CAND LEAD, he spelled out C-A-N-D lead

Called radio cks for C-A-N-D 1 to 10, only 4 to 10 answered.
Then USA 1, 2 & 3, only 2 & 3 answered.
Then C-A-N-D PT, no answer
Then "Joint Emergency Response Task Force Team - test complete", no answer

(from Tam)
Dave

You beat me to it. They also asked for CAND 11 with no response.

Radio IDs are in the 705300 range.

From the tone of voice, participants did not sound like they communicate via radio very often.

I heard them on Site 9. I didn't check any other sites.

 

[WayneH]

Just heard the mystery TG 175 this time very clear as to IDs, CAND LEAD, he spelled out C-A-N-D lead

DOD and DOJ are rumored to be on the system. I'm not sure if it would be either of them but FYI anyway.

 

[Retired911Guy]

Any of you online NOW (13:30 pst) and near your scanner , bring up the OLD SYSTEM, radio techs are going DECOMMISSION it AND play TAPS on it before they unplug it.

Also stated that NEW SYS radios have been given to Southern Marin Fire and Coast Guard Golden Gate

EDIT: 13:36 tech announced on old sys after 16 1/2 yrs the GG TRS sys is going off air permanently.

I've heard NO TAPS on either old/new sys (unless ENC from Disp on new sys), they said twice they would play TAPS, don't know what happened.

It's gone.... no more CC, no taps, to bad really wanted hear that after so many yrs of monitoring GGNRA off the TAM Site.

Last Edit on this: Would be nice if they used a couple of those freqs to upgrade the NEW Tam so it doesn't busy out so often.

OK so this is really the last edit, they may have played the TAPS in person by the US Park PD at Tam, just heard K9-6 (PPD unit) say they were all off hill and on the GGB. So I think they played the Taps physically by the Honor Guard group by the Park Police.

Dave

 

[jlanfn]

Just heard a unit refer to TG 508 as "ICS" (I'm assuming as in "Incident Command System"). They're working a search and rescue for a missing person on it right now. Unit 508 is the IC.

 

[Retired911Guy]

also listening to this, 508 is Petella? IC, requested CHP Chopper to help search however CHP has only AIRPLANE to help (maybe due area?, Location?), anyway 508 IC said he will have Cal-Cord up for CHP.

On Cal--Cord NOW...

 

[officer_415]

SMFD was just dispatched for a 10-55 individual in a trunk at McCullough and Conzelman. Related?

 

[inigo88]

Excellent work guys! ICS was a talkgroup on the old system as well, and is used as a mutual aid LE/Fire/EMS command/tac channel for working incidents (which usually incorporate the need for a command post and incident command system duty assignments like IC, Operations, Planning, etc).

 

[Retired911Guy]

SMFD was just dispatched for a 10-55 individual in a trunk at McCullough and Conzelman. Related?

Martin, yes related, around 2:30pm MCSO put a MERA APB for MVPD of a missing person stated "he was enroute to GGB" Around 5:30pm a ranger ran a plate of a car parked McCullough and Conzelman and came back to the guy from MVPD APB, big search, CP set up in next to the car.....4 hrs or so later someone decided to search the car for any evidence that would be helpful, got to the trunk and YIKES!!!

Dave

 

[Retired911Guy]

TG 539 is NOT Stinson Beach as I had thought due to the usage of the 900 numbers which were previously reported as Stinson Beach.

From the bits and pieces I have put together from the TG 539 and the 900 units on it, they seem to be Presidio Rangers. Unless someone else can ID some of the locations, possibly Aquatic Park?

900 units are taking about Museums, Curators, and Conservators (active work on conserving museum pieces). Yes, the Maritime Museum is in the Aquatic Park Area, but there are many other PARK and MILITARY museums and The Visitor Center in Presidio proper.

Ranger 929 (yes the same ranger as 629 when at Ft Mason & 329 when at Alcatraz), requested three areas or parts of Museums or displays called "Eureka" & Hercules" there was a third but could not understand what it was. Also heard 929 tell all "xxxxx" units "xxxxx" is now closed. "xxxxx" = could not understand what he said. Another 900 units just said "Hercules" is now closed.

Just now heard a 900 unit say "Visitor Center is now closed and alarmed" the SF side Visitor Center is right in the middle of the Presidio.

So here's what I think, others may something else...

900 Presidio Rangers (heard the above and Ranger 929 there)
600 Ft Mason-Aquatic Park (heard Ranger 629 same guy as 929) But have heard NO other 600 units
300 Alcatraz Verified (329 same guy again changing from 3 to 6 to 9 depending where he's working)

Again still haven't heard ANY other 600 units, but 629 was on the Alcatraz TG when I heard him. Ft Mason-Aquatic Park would be well covered by roof top antenna from Dispatch on Tac CHL or just a direct CHL.

And Stinson Beach units still UTL, they were reported to be on Tac 7 or CHL 7, however have now heard both Maint North & South tell other maint units go to CHL 7 or sometimes called Direct 7 to talk about details of projects etc. So Stinson beach may have been moved to another CHL or simply renamed CHL.

Dave

 

[inigo88]

And Stinson Beach units still UTL, they were reported to be on Tac 7 or CHL 7, however have now heard both Maint North & South tell other maint units go to CHL 7 or sometimes called Direct 7 to talk about details of projects etc. So Stinson beach may have been moved to another CHL or simply renamed CHL.

You have heard them talk about Channel 7 or Direct 7 since they moved to the new LLNL system? That's important, because if so it means they may have held onto the 3 simplex frequencies from the old system (the new radios have the same frequency range).

 

[Retired911Guy]

You have heard them talk about Channel 7 or Direct 7 since they moved to the new LLNL system? That's important, because if so it means they may have held onto the 3 simplex frequencies from the old system (the new radios have the same frequency range).

Yes, on the new system, one of the requests to go to Direct 7 was "to see if it works from the shop to where you are" this was on TG 519 Maint South, so obviously simplex, otherwise he wouldn't have questioned if it would work from the shop to other location. Also heard Maint North TG 518 say switch to CHL 7.

NOTE: I have NOT heard any traffic while monitoring the TAC or Direct whatever you call them CHLs, but then I'm in a back valley as you know and probably would not hear any of simplex CHL unless there were on my roof sitting next to my antenna What you say Man on the Hill, have you tried to monitor the below freqs, probably a weekend would be best when there may be more traffic and of course you are home.

Also don't know if you noticed that the old list of TAC CHLS is slightly different than the CHL lineup that Wayne posted on the Old Sys radio programming.

First 3 listed in Wayne's Radio programming list
CH7 408.4000 CSQ "DIRECT 7" Stinson ?
CH8 417.7250 CSQ "DIRECT 8"
CH9 418.0750 CSQ "DIRECT 9"

These three have been listed at different times as TAC, 1,2,3 or others
CH-a? 417.8750 CSQ
CH-b? 418.0500 CSQ
CH-c? 418.5750 CSQ

And some lists had them mixed in with other names.

And regarding the radios being able to be programed to the old sys freqs, that's why in an above post I said I HOPED that they would add some of the old sys freqs now that it's down, to the new system, it seems to take a resource such as Mt Tam and limit it to only 2 voice chls is a waste of the elevation and location of Tam. When it was just GGNRA that's all they needed, but now as part of a Bay Area Wide Fed System it should have more voice Chls.

BTW: that package I was waiting for has had some complications.

Dave

 

[Retired911Guy]

900 units are taking about Museums, Curators, and Conservators (active work on conserving museum pieces). Yes, the Maritime Museum is in the Aquatic Park Area, but there are many other PARK and MILITARY museums and The Visitor Center in Presidio proper.

Ranger 929 (yes the same ranger as 629 when at Ft Mason & 329 when at Alcatraz), requested three areas or parts of Museums or displays called "Eureka" & Hercules" there was a third but could not understand what it was. Also heard 929 tell all "xxxxx" units "xxxxx" is now closed. "xxxxx" = could not understand what he said. Another 900 units just said "Hercules" is now closed.

Just now heard a 900 unit say "Visitor Center is now closed and alarmed" the SF side Visitor Center is right in the middle of the Presidio.
Dave

I HATE it when I continue to throw mud in my own eye, however having just Google'd "The Hecules and The Eureka" +GGNRA pages returned regarding old flatbelly and steamer ships at the SF Maritime National Historic Park at Aquatic Park. So it seems that the 900s at least cover Aquatic Park. I do know they have a Museum there, I heard them closing the Museum, but also closing the "Visitors Center", they may have a "Visitors Center" at Aquatic Park as well as the Presidio "Visitors Center".

And thinking about it, most the Presidio proper falls under the Presidio Trust which can NOT use any Federal Resources to operate, they do contract with US Park PD for coverage but also have a private security company doing routine patrol of some of the residential areas. They may contract with NPS to run the Military Archives and Presidio Visitor Center.

So far as my prior post that 900s were Presidio and Aquatic was UTL ---never mind
The question is now are there rangers in the presidio proper and are they 900s also, what about Crissy Field, what about the guy who called himself 629 and said he was at Ft Mason while on the Alcatraz TG.

I think we (I?) can safely say that Aquatic Park Rangers are 900s due to the confirmation of the Ship names via Google that are at the SF Maritime National Historic Park and the 900 units I heard were opening and closing those ship names.

Don't have many eyes left without mud in them...But at least I'm trying!

Dave

 

[jlanfn]

DOD and DOJ are rumored to be on the system. I'm not sure if it would be either of them but FYI anyway.

If you Google "CAND" and "US DOJ" you get United States District Court, Northern District of California (CAlifornia Northern District). I'm not sure why they would be part of an emergency response task force, though.

 

[officer_415]

What you say Man on the Hill, have you tried to monitor the below freqs, probably a weekend would be best when there may be more traffic

Today I monitored the old conventional channels for several hours and heard nothing, although it’s doubtful that I would be able to hear anything from Fort Mason / Aquatic Park due to the terrain. I do have direct line of sight to Alcatraz, so I imagine I would be able to hear traffic there, but like I said the frequencies were all quiet.