Golden Gate National Recreation

[jlanfn]

Today I monitored the old conventional channels for several hours and heard nothing, although it’s doubtful that I would be able to hear anything from Fort Mason / Aquatic Park due to the terrain. I do have direct line of sight to Alcatraz, so I imagine I would be able to hear traffic there, but like I said the frequencies were all quiet.

I was monitoring TG 539 today and at one point they requested to switch to Direct 7. I tuned my scanner to 408.4 MHz and there was some traffic. It broke the squelch, but was mostly covered in static at my location, so I couldn't really hear what was said. But, it definitely was in use.

 

[picaflor]

Anyone able to hear units in the field but not dispatch on the new system?

 

[officer_415]

Anyone able to hear units in the field but not dispatch on the new system?

Yes. Dispatch is full-time encrypted, but field units often neglect to turn encryption on, so that is why you can often hear them.

 

[SCPD]

Over the weekend I found a way to access the employee directory for each National Park unit. I haven't finished yet, but I'm using this to research the ranger district and sub ranger district organization of NPS units. Ranger districts are part of the organization at large national parks, especially those with long travel times to various locations in the park, which does not allow for all supervision to be conducted out of Park HQ.

I looked at GGNRA to see if there were any ranger districts as it might have been useful in figuring out radio IDs or unit designators. Unlike most other National Park units the employee directory for GGNRA only shows the generic description of each position. This means that instead of seeing something like "Wawona District Ranger" (used in Yosemite's directory) a similar position at GGNRA shows "Supervisory Park Ranger." This could be a district ranger, as sub-district ranger, a interpretive ranger supervisor or something else. As I understand it each employee maintains their own listing. Some people describe their position very generically and some are more specific. The listings on some units are very specific for each person and some, like GGNRA, are not specific at all.

After a great deal of searching a lot of the nooks and crannies of the NPS website and doing Google searches I've yet to find any information about the ranger district organization of park units. It is much more clear for National Forests where the ranger district organization is clearly shown for each forest. I guess the public doesn't need to know the ranger district organization of a park unit as much as it does a National Forest.

If anyone has a way of finding out the ranger district organization of National Park units I would love to hear from them.

 

[Retired911Guy]

Hi everyone,

I've just LOST 3 months of data on my GGNRA Affiliations-110.csv (TAM).

If anyone has ANY Affiliations data from ANY site on GGNRA (yes any site) could you PLEASE email a copy to me, my email is open on my member page.

I was working on trying to ID the TG LOADS on what I believe is a two or more LOAD radio system as Wayne posted the OLD SYS was two LOADS for LE and Non LE.

After sorting the Affiliations-110.csv list by radio ID I was able to determine when the radio FIRST came online and TGs were tested by the Techs, then FINAL assignment.

Below is as far as I got with the 900 Rangers (BTW I will post some more on them later) and the TGs tested prior to delivery to them.

NON LE Load

507 Unk
508 ICS
509 Dispatch Call
518 Maint North
519 Maint South
521 Interop? LE, Maint & Non LE RIDS & (520 unk TG, but 520 units were on this TG)
522 Interop? LE, Maint & Non LE RIDS
523 Radio Techs
535 Marin Non LE Rangers (No Stinson BCH)
536 Interop Maint-Non LE only?
538 Alcatraz
539--> final assigment Rangers 915,920,922,924,925,929,941,945 (SF Maritime National Historic Park)

540 only 925's radio was tested on this TG (TG may not have been up when others were tested, don't know, seems like another Interop with Maint and Non LE Rangers RIDs on it)

Ranger 929 also got TG 108 (Muir NHS) and Ranger 920 got TG 109 (not listed in RR but due it being the next number from 108 it may be Muir NHS also)

This is interesting that GGNRA rangers would have MUIR NHS TGs in their radios, might suggest that GGNRA Park HQ may be NPS HQ for the Bay Area or more. The rangers with Muir NHS TGs may be supervisors or Admin Rangers that are working Regular shifts to fill in when needed.

Thanks for any help with Affiliations list.

Dave

 

[WayneH]

Hi everyone,

I've just LOST 3 months of data on my GGNRA Affiliations-110.csv (TAM).

If anyone has ANY Affiliations data from ANY site on GGNRA (yes any site) could you PLEASE email a copy to me, my email is open on my member page.

Hey Dave,

If you aren't running a newer copy of PRO96COM it allows you to do backups based on when you choose. I'd highly suggest it for moments like these.

I've got logs for Diablo but that's it.

 

[Retired911Guy]

Hey Dave,

If you aren't running a newer copy of PRO96COM it allows you to do backups based on when you choose. I'd highly suggest it for moments like these.

I've got logs for Diablo but that's it.

Wayne, if you could email that log it may help me establish the LE load, I know Diablo transmits only LE so that may help. I think the Non LE load that I listed above looks pretty constant, I would have liked to check other Non LE groups also just to verify if all the same. Maybe someone else has a Berkeley, Presidio or Montara log.(or of course TAM)


Thanks
Dave

 

[Retired911Guy]

New TG Verified - TG 539

TG 539 has verified as The "San Francisco Maritime National Historic Park"
This Park is NOT part of GGNRA, verified by me talking to the lead ranger at the park.

For info broadcasts to all Park Rangers they announce "all Maritime Rangers"
The group that works the Historic Ships are called "Hyde St Rangers"
The group that works the Visitor Center are called "Visitor Center Rangers"
And the group that works the Museum are call the "Museum Rangers"

When any of the above groups have an announcement they announce "all Hyde St Rangers" Etc, for each group.

When there is a Hyde St announcement, 4 other rangers acknowledge, meaning they have 5 Rangers in that group.
When there is a Visitor Center announcement, 3 other rangers acknowledge, meaning they have 4 Rangers in that group.
When there is a Museum announcement, 1and sometimes 2 other rangers acknowledge, meaning they have 2-3 Rangers in that group.

There are 2 Rangers that I not ID'd to any one of these groups and may be more management type.

The Rangers are all 900s

I will submit this this info, but it should be listed as a separate listing (IE: not GGNRA) but San Francisco Maritime National Historic Park. (again verified by a lead Ranger that I talked to)

History - 1962 became a State Park, 1977 became part of GGNRA, 1988 got it's own funding and withdrew from GGNRA, but still part of NPS North-West Headquarters in SF.

EDIT: ALSO it may be time to rename to system name from "Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory" to something else that reflects that Bay Area National Parks are on the system (ALSO).

If you are a visitor to the SF area you are most likely going to be visiting the NP sites and a system named "Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory" would NOT let you know that all the park areas that you are visiting can be found there.

Dave

 

[inigo88]

I think listing SF Maritime NHP separately is splitting hairs a little too much. Both SF Maritime NHP and Presidio Trust were on the old GGNRA trunking system. Furthermore referring to the map below (from the NPS website) SF Maritime NHP and Presidio are both listed as "areas managed by GGNRA."

http://www.nps.gov/goga/planyourvisit/upload/GOGAmap1.pdf

While we know the funding situation is convoluted and complicated and they are technically independent, when the end user see's these places on a GGNRA map they're going to expect them to be associated with GGNRA (and they are - they're patrolled by US Park Police and NPS LE Rangers on GGNRA LE Dispatch 1). Therefore I'm leaving the categories alone for now.

 

[Retired911Guy]

I think listing SF Maritime NHP separately is splitting hairs a little too much. Both SF Maritime NHP and Presidio Trust were on the old GGNRA trunking system. Furthermore referring to the map below (from the NPS website) SF Maritime NHP and Presidio are both listed as "areas managed by GGNRA."

http://www.nps.gov/goga/planyourvisit/upload/GOGAmap1.pdf

While we know the funding situation is convoluted and complicated and they are technically independent, when the end user see's these places on a GGNRA map they're going to expect them to be associated with GGNRA (and they are - they're patrolled by US Park Police and NPS LE Rangers on GGNRA LE Dispatch 1). Therefore I'm leaving the categories alone for now.

I asked the lead Ranger about the map because I also was aware it shows the SF Marintime Park is managed by GGNRA and she said the map was wrong, they fell directly under the NPS NW HQ in SF.

But do what ever you want, if you don't want to post the correct info, then I'll stop spending so much time on making sure that I data I post is accurate. (if I post at all)

BTW I asked about Muir NHS and she they were the same, directly under NPS NW HQ in SF, you want to put them under GGNRA?
Bye...

 

[inigo88]

How would you propose changing the categories then? Keeping in mind that there's no way to make talkgroup sub-categories.

Option 1:

National Park Service - Golden Gate National Recreation Area (GGNRA)

&

National Park Serivce - Other:

Option 2:

Change GGNRA category to National Park Service and make all the GGNRA descriptions extremely long, like "Golden Gate National Recreation Area (GGNRA) - Law Enforcement Dispatch 1." No, not doing that...

Option 3: Move SF Maritime NHP to Miscellaneous to be with Muir NHS? That could work.

 

[officer_415]

do what ever you want, if you don't want to post the correct info, then I'll stop spending so much time on making sure that I data I post is accurate.

Dave, we all appreciate your information. I don't think Inigo is rejecting your idea, he's just trying to figure out the best way to organize the database. After all, SF Maritime NHP was on the old GGNRA system, and it seems a little wasteful to create a whole talkgroup category just for SFMNHP. I was the one who suggested putting it under miscellaneous; I think that works best.

I would also support renaming the system, but it is still technically the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory trunked system, shared with Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, the Defense Logistics Agency, the Joint Genome Institute, and the National Park Service.

 

[inigo88]

I don't think we should change the system name unless some kind of official source can be found revealing that the actual name has been changed from LLNL. Back before the LLNL system was upgraded to P25 and expanded, we know for a fact that it was formerly owned and maintained by Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory because they actually mailed Lindsay a cease and desist letter requesting their radio system be removed from the website. As the website (and Lindsay's legal team) grew, that voluntary information removal policy was reversed and the LLNL system reappeared in the database thereafter.

If you're concerned about people being able to find GGNRA within the LLNL system, I will do my best to make sure the categories in San Francisco & Marin Counties redirect GGNRA to this system.

And Dave, your contribution is appreciated - as always! I think you misunderstood my original post.

 

[WayneH]

TG 539 has verified as The "San Francisco Maritime National Historic Park"

I was wondering who the user was as they use the 7254xx RID range. It's not used on any of the other GGNRA channels. BUT, I have seen it on the All-Call channel so they do have that in their radios.

To update my past list:
7050xx, 7051xx, 7052xx is LBNL
7053xx is TG 175/CAND People
7058xx is TG 123,124
7250xx, 7251xx is GGNRA LE
7252xx is USF&WS
7253xx is GGNRA Fire/EMS
7254xx is SF Maritime NHP
7255xx is GGNRA Maint-Admin
7256xx is GGNRA LE
7257xx, 7258xx is GGNRA Maint-Admin
7259xx is DOI Radio Service
7260xx, 7261xx is GGNRA LE
7262xx is GGNRA Maint-Admin
7263xx is GGNRA Fire/EMS
7269xx is DOI Radio Service?

So in radio system database terms SF Maritime falls within the GGNRA organization of things. Sometimes for the sake of keeping things simple you can go with how an agency appears from the system perspective, or go with what's technically correct. Uh, good luck with that Inigo.

 

[KO6FO]

Need Trunk Table Info for GGNRA / Livermore System

I've been trying to monitor GGNRA on the new APCO 25 Livermore Lab system. On a Pro 96 scanner. I have good reception of both the Mt. Tam and Presidio sites. The scanner decodes the system ID on the control channels; however, the scanner won't track the system. I can get reception of some encrypted and clear transmissions when manually monitoring a frequency, but the talk groups don't read out.

I've tried a few different base and offset settings. I read some of the data dumps posted in this thread which show trunking tables. However, they all seem to have base frequencies in the 800 Mhz. range, and this is a 400 Mhz. system. I have WIN96.

I have the frequency and talk group data from the data base, but can't find the table data on the WIKI or database. I'm too familiar with programming for the UHF trunk systems, although I was able to receive the old GGNRA system.

 

[jlanfn]

Try this table for both Presidio (Site 1-9) and Mount Tam (Site 1-10):

Base: 382.75
Offset: 16384
Step: 12.5

The bank with the control channels needs to be set to "MOT," each control channel's mode needs to be set to "MOT," and you can only have one P25 site per bank (e.g., you could put Presidio in Bank 0 and Mount Tam in Bank 1). On the right side of your Win96 window set the "MOT 3600 CC" to "Normal" and the "MOT 9600 CC" to "Custom Table." Then enter the above listed base, offset, and step into the "MOT Custom Trunking Table" area. There is no need to use the "Extended Tables" or "Multi table" options.

Let me know how that works for you.

If you need help programming, I have Win96 so I can take a look at your files.

 

[KO6FO]

Try this table for both Presidio (Site 1-9) and Mount Tam (Site 1-10):

Base: 382.75
Offset: 16384
Step: 12.5

The bank with the control channels needs to be set to "MOT," each control channel's mode needs to be set to "MOT," and you can only have one P25 site per bank (e.g., you could put Presidio in Bank 0 and Mount Tam in Bank 1). On the right side of your Win96 window set the "MOT 3600 CC" to "Normal" and the "MOT 9600 CC" to "Custom Table." Then enter the above listed base, offset, and step into the "MOT Custom Trunking Table" area. There is no need to use the "Extended Tables" or "Multi table" options.
.

The trunk tables that you suggested seem to work for both sites. I'm not sure how I would have figured them out with the information I have available. Thanks for the help.

I get about equal reception in the Sunset district from both sites. I currently have them both in one bank with one or the other set of frequencies locked out.

So far I have only heard GGNRA traffic rather than any of the other system traffic. A talk group 520 came up that wasn't in the RR database as of a couple of days age.

The 501 (Law Enforcement 1) group has been encrypted most of the time, but occasionally one side of the conversation is in the clear.

I used to do audiovisual and museum tech work for GGNRA many years ago and have more recently supported the group trying to save more of the ship Wapama; so, I'm pretty familiar with the geography. It can be interesting monitoring having some context.

 

[inigo88]

The trunk tables that you suggested seem to work for both sites. I'm not sure how I would have figured them out with the information I have available.

Newer scanners will autodetect the trunking tables being announced through the P25 control channel automatically. Because the Pro-96 was made while P25 was still in its infancy, the process is more convoluted.

Download Pro96Com. Go to the control channel of whatever P25 system you want to monitor. Follow the documentation on how to put the Pro-96 into PC/IF mode, and hook the scanner up to the computer using the PC/IF programming cable. Click run. Read the trunking tables from the control channel. Then open Win96 (or whatever programming software you use) and copy those into the custom multi-tables for the system (which can only be set using software, not directly from the keypad).

If you think that's bad, you should see how we used to have to figure out the multi-tables for Motorola Type II VHF/UHF systems (hint, it involves math).

 

[MtnBiker2005]

The tower0###.txt reports from Pro96Com available on this page to read for this system with the table info. [7th list down]
http://socalfedcom.blogspot.com/p/federalmilitary-pro96com-reports.html

 

[polarscribe]

Interpretive rangers don't use radios very much.

That's not necessarily true, depending on the scale of the interpretive operation. I'm an interp at the Tongass National Forest's Mendenhall Glacier Visitor Center, which is staffed with up to 15 people on a busy day, and our radio system gets a workout. With interpreters scattered around the area at field locations up to a mile away from the main visitor center, the radio ends up as a primary management tool. We have no LEOs on-site (there's only one to cover the largest RD in the FS) so the field staff does everything.There's a lot of mundane traffic (requesting breaks, schedule changes, etc.)... and some not-so-mundane - bears on trails, parking lots, and staircases, visitor injuries, permit violations, etc.

Of course, it's all simplex with VX-900s and half the time you're around a hill and can't hear anything anyway. *headdesk*