Goodbye Uniden? Simulcast Issues

[greggk]

Hi All. We moved from Illinois to York, PA about one year ago.. I've been sick and just now getting back up with Uniden again.

A very kind gentleman here, with a literal heart of gold, drove to my house from another state and set my scanning software up for where I live. I don't have authority to identify him. However, he was sporting a new SDS 100, that might work better. Unfortunately, my wife reminded me of the 3,500k I just spent for a better Nikon and a lens. (Lens cost more than the camera)

We had some success yesterday when this was set up. Now last night and today I am picking up very few transmissions, if any at all, from my 436/536. My 436 has not worked all day, yet I know its capable of it. The suggestion of simulcast just slapped me in the face.

I'm told there is no cure, and I don't want to start another massive "simulcast" thread here. I did post a similar post in the PA forums; Moderators.. I know.
If anyone has any suggestions perhaps you could post at the PA forums. My post won't be hard to find..lol.

Thank you very much. I hope I don't have to sell my 536, but if this issue is a no-win then I probably will. Never thought the day would come.

Have a great weekend all. Greg

 

[GTR8000]

As has been very well documented on this site over the years, scanners fail miserably with P25 trunked simulcasting. The only scanners designed from the ground up to properly decode these simulcast systems is the Uniden SDS series. The Unication G Series pagers also do a great job decoding simulcast, however they are not as flexible or feature rich as a scanner would be, although there is some firmware on the horizon that will expand their capabilities to make them more "scanner-like" (however it will potentially come at an additional cost to upgrade over the standard firmware).

There are a handful of members here who will tell you that they own dozens of scanners, and will swear they all work 100% perfectly on every system 100% of the time. Take those sorts of posts with a grain of salt, as they are always the exception, not the rule.

The bottom line is that if you're having trouble decoding York County's simulcast Phase II system with your x36HP scanners, then you're inevitably looking at upgrading to an SDS or Unication, depending on your wants and needs.

 

[gcopter1]

Although I no longer own a 436/536, I believe Uniden issued a firmware update to "help" with simulcast reception.
In all likelihood, the reason you are no longer hearing anything, as opposed to yesterday when your friend set the radio up for you, is because you changed the radio location. Some people have found out these radios work well, only after finding a very specific combination of antenna and location and just nail the radio there. Otherwise, sell the 36 and save up for a Uniden SDS100.

 

[pro2096HI]

The SIMU problems with digital scanners is as well known and universal as the sunrise. You have a good radio. SDS 100/200 supposedly fixed this. I say supposed only because I haven't got to test one yet. Is the firmware up to date? You could send it off to Scannermaster or another dealer to have them update and trick it out professionally.

 

[greggk]

Thanks everyone. I don't have a SDS; just wondering if they will, indeed, fix this issue? I know there is no "correct" answer, but there are reasonable deductions. Appreciate your inputs. Greg

 

[GTR8000]

The issue with non-SDS series scanners cannot be "fixed", as it is a product of the fundamental hardware design. No amount of smoke and mirrors with firmware tweaks or rotating the scanner 27.4 degrees clockwise or coffee can antennas etc. is going to permanently overcome the inherent limitation of these scanners.

While you may achieve some success if you never change the location of your scanner, and can perhaps employ various hacks like enabling attenuation or using a highly directional or low gain antenna, the only true "fix" is to purchase the proper hardware that was purposefully designed to handle these simulcasts. Only you can decide if the likely frustration (and potential added expense) of trying every trick in the book is ultimately worth it, vs trading up for a device that you can walk/drive around with that will function pretty much everywhere, no hocus pocus required.

 

[greggk]

Thank you and that was my question. I may be purchasing an SDS 100 after some reading. I discovered today that the city of York has all 4 simulcast setups. Not much hope for any luck here. I'll buy the SDS 100 if it will stop all this. Thanks again. Greg

Lots of good reading in my "special" reading room. Woo hooo

 

[Nasby]

I tried every setting, every antenna (including a paint can), every angle, and every so-called solution in the long list of simulcast distortion suggestions.

Nothing worked. Until I got an SDS100.

Now I can hear my local system from any place in my house. Any place in my county.

No tricks, no adjustments, no quirky antennas.......Just nice, clean, consistent ungarbled reception.

 

[GTR8000]

I tried every setting, every antenna (including a paint can), every angle, and every so-called solution in the long list of simulcast distortion suggestions.

Nothing worked. Until I got an SDS100.

Now I can hear my local system from any place in my house. Any place in my county.

No tricks, no adjustments, no quirky antennas.......Just nice, clean, consistent ungarbled reception.

Thank you for the refreshing post. Straight up truth telling right there, as it should be.

We read too many head-in-sand posts from a very tiny but very vocal minority around here, always trying to constantly convince everyone that it's all in our heads when it comes to non-SDS scanners and simulcast P25 trunking. It's almost as if they take personal offense at the notion that anyone would dare suggest that their $10,000 scanner collection is inferior. Even Uniden finally admitted that the older scanners weren't cutting it, and so they designed the SDS series. Whistler acknowledged it as well, although they never followed through on their promise to come out with a design that would handle simulcast well.

I happen to own and/or operate a few Uniden scanners, including the 346XT, 996P2, 536HP, and SDS200. They're all solid performers in their own right, but clearly some are better geared towards specific things than others. My opinion is that the older models are superior on analog signals than the SDS, especially in the VHF and UHF bands, however they can't hold a candle to the SDS when it comes to 700/800 P25 simulcast trunking.

 

[baj76]

Greg, buy you a SDS....i promise you won't regret it, I love my SDS100..But i believe i love my G4 better

 

[eorange]

But i believe i love my G4 better

What makes you say that?

 

[jonwienke]

Although I no longer own a 436/536, I believe Uniden issued a firmware update to "help" with simulcast reception.

No. Some users reported various x36 firmware updates as improving simulcast reception somewhat, but they were not advertised by Uniden as such.

The only consistently effective solution for simulcast issues is upgrading to a radio specifically designed for it--either a SDS, or one of the Unications, if you can live with their other limitations.

 

[baj76]

What makes you say that?

It's smaller and the battery last longer and i believe the G4 receives better than the SDS does

 

[maus92]

G4/G5 might be *slightly* better at reception, but its main advantages are its portability, unobtrusiveness, and battery life vs. the SDS100. But the SDS100 is far more flexible. In the end, I sold my SDS100 when the SDS200 came out. Now I have an SDS200 permanently mounted in my vehicle, and have the G5 as a backup and when I leave the vehicle. Both perform well, and I don't have any favorite.

 

[Hit_Factor]

I don't see any RX difference between my G5 and SDS100s on the MPSCS.

Local monitoring I use the G5 due to form factor and battery life. On the go, definitely the SDS100 for location based scanning with a GPS.

 

[diatonic]

Weird. I live in Gettysburg, PA area. and I pickup York County, Adams County, Carroll County MD, and Frederick County MD on my BCD436HP without any issues. I even have it in my car when I drive around and can pickup alot of things with it.

 

[maus92]

Known unknowns, meaning that simulcast reception issues affect some radios more than others, and you may not know when you are suffering the effects. I used to have a 436, and it did suffer from garbling on the Md First system (and on the AACo SmartZone system - severe multipath issue.) What I did not realize at first was that I was missing entire transmissions. So I purchased a G5, and locked a site and TG on both. The difference was startling. So the 436 was quickly sold. I'd imagine that if you took a G5 or SDS100 along for a ride with your 436, you would hear the difference.

The same concept above applies to monitoring from home (office in my case,) although you are not moving. You *might* live in a sweet spot for your local Adams County system - as I do for MD FIRST. My 536 has no issues with simulcast because my location is only a few thousand meters from a tower site, the others towers being much farther away (weirdly, my 996P2, HP-2 and the 436 choked on this system.) As for the other systems, you are far enough away not to suffer from simulcast distortion from multiple tower sites; you likely live much closer to one tower site of those systems. The OP who is having the issue with his 436/536 lives in the midst of several relatively close simulcast sites - hellish situation for a non-optimized receiver. He also mentioned in another thread that a person who came to help him with his current scanners had an SDS100 and it works at his location.

But glad you are satisfied.

 

[Bob1955]

Thank you for the refreshing post. Straight up truth telling right there, as it should be.

We read too many head-in-sand posts from a very tiny but very vocal minority around here, always trying to constantly convince everyone that it's all in our heads when it comes to non-SDS scanners and simulcast P25 trunking. It's almost as if they take personal offense at the notion that anyone would dare suggest that their $10,000 scanner collection is inferior. Even Uniden finally admitted that the older scanners weren't cutting it, and so they designed the SDS series. Whistler acknowledged it as well, although they never followed through on their promise to come out with a design that would handle simulcast well.

I happen to own and/or operate a few Uniden scanners, including the 346XT, 996P2, 536HP, and SDS200. They're all solid performers in their own right, but clearly some are better geared towards specific things than others. My opinion is that the older models are superior on analog signals than the SDS, especially in the VHF and UHF bands, however they can't hold a candle to the SDS when it comes to 700/800 P25 simulcast trunking.

The Bearcat BCD-996P2 that I own is great on ALL analog and digital, even on New Rochelle, NY Police that is simulcasted. I'm about 3 miles from their North End tower on Wilmot Road and The Hutchinson River Parkway. I cannot justify spending $699.95 on a scanner with a color screen. It is an OVER-KILL in my mind. I'm just curious if the Comet BNC-W100RX 4" swivel telescoping whip antenna for base/handheld will perform better then the supplied factory antenna? I cannot put up a roof antenna here.

 

[greggk]

Weird. I live in Gettysburg, PA area. and I pickup York County, Adams County, Carroll County MD, and Frederick County MD on my BCD436HP without any issues. I even have it in my car when I drive around and can pickup alot of things with it.

Are you in a heavy simulcast area? I would think not if your 436 is working just fine there. Greg

 

[maus92]

The Bearcat BCD-996P2 that I own is great on ALL analog and digital, even on New Rochelle, NY Police that is simulcasted. I'm about 3 miles from their North End tower on Wilmot Road and The Hutchinson River Parkway. I cannot justify spending $699.95 on a scanner with a color screen. It is an OVER-KILL in my mind. I'm just curious if the Comet BNC-W100RX 4" swivel telescoping whip antenna for base/handheld will perform better then the supplied factory antenna? I cannot put up a roof antenna here.

The puny 3 site system in New Rochelle is hardly comparable to a wide area 10-20+ site simulcast system that is typically used for countywide coverage. Two of the sites are 50W, while the 3rd is 25W. The main site is dominant, the 2 others are low antennas meant to fill in coverage to support portable subscribers. Apple to oranges. My PSR800 could probably receive it with no issues. And the last thing the OP needs is a gain antenna.