GRE Scanners in Utah

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Utah_Viper

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"Need more time, I guess. Seems like I'm turning this thread into my own personal educational and complaint tool, too. Sorry."

Don't worry about it. It is a learning experience for most/all of us here as well. Any questions that you (or I) would have, someone else is wondering as well.

Hey, qlajlu dont worry about it. Now when ever I can afford my GRE I will have a great resource available :)
always remember that's what this group is sbout.... helping each other, working together, and advancing our hobby !
 

qlajlu

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Hey, qlajlu dont worry about it. Now when ever I can afford my GRE I will have a great resource available :)
always remember that's what this group is sbout.... helping each other, working together, and advancing our hobby !
Ah, yes, the guinea pig syndrome. Don't fret about not having the money just yet for ordering your GRE. I just read where GRE is terribly backlogged because of an earthquake in some foreign country that makes a prime component for the scanner. Estimates are that it will be the end of September before they start getting any reliable supplies again. Course you might still be able to find one in stock in one of the many stores that have stocked them, but it is not sounding very promising.

Oh, and thanks for your words of support. Yep, this thread should be a veritable wealth of information for you. :D
 

qlajlu

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A Word of Warning!

The WIN500 software is unforgiving. Make a mistake and you will pay. However,

WHOOPEE!

I'm up and running again and with the right alpha tags.

I wish that I had taken a screen shot but I will try to explain it. When you download a system from the RR Database, you encounter a screen that has several settings on it. One (me) would ass u me that you could just run with the default settings. Not so fast! There are two settings (I have learned the hard way) that are, shall we say, extremely important that do not appear until you click on "Import This System."

1. There is a box having to do with alpha tags and you MUST select the second radio button to get the correct alpha tags. It defaults to the first radio button and that is what actually started this crusade for me. CHOOSE THE SECOND (MIDDLE) RADIO BUTTON (there are three buttons).

2. There is a drop-down box that you must click. It will allow you to make the proper scan-list assignment for the object (in my case it was the UCAN System). I don't know where the last one went that locked up my scanner, but even though I could see it by scrolling manually, it would not go into the active scan.​

After making those two important selections you can finish the download to the WIN500 software and then upload it to the scanner.

Additionally, there is NO "Help" file with the WIN500 software...yet. I have found out that it is a work in progress. gldavis was, oh, so correct: This new platform has a very steep learning curve, indeed.
 

jjwhite29

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That happend to me it said nothing scanable my problem was they were all locked out and the other problem about the not picking up other TG trying looking at your not scan list you have to assign them to a talk group.
 

qlajlu

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Perhaps this thread should be relabeled as "GRE for Beginners" or even better, "GRE for Dummies." However, if explaining the difficulties I have encountered and how I have been able to solve them will help just one person make the transition to GRE PSR 500/600 easier, then lowering the natural defense mechanism I use to conceal my ignorance will be worth it. Some of you are already familiar with the Object scanning of the GRE because other makes of scanners have employed it in some way ("CC Only" scanning comes close), but this is new territory for me and probably others who are only used to the older, traditional Banks/Channels used by Uniden.

You must also remember that everything I do in configuring my GRE is done using Starrsoft's WIN500 software. I must also give credit to gadgetmikey's unselfish tutelage because he set me off on the right path. Unknowingly, gadgetmikey and I both ordered GRE PSR 600s from the same dealer on the same day and took delivery of them both on the same day even though half a state separates us. Weird. :eek:
"Need more time, I guess. Seems like I'm turning this thread into my own personal educational and complaint tool, too. Sorry."

Don't worry about it. It is a learning experience for most/all of us here as well. Any questions that you (or I) would have, someone else is wondering as well.

Hey, qlajlu dont worry about it. Now when ever I can afford my GRE I will have a great resource available :)
always remember that's what this group is sbout.... helping each other, working together, and advancing our hobby !
Okay, using the above quotes as encouragement I am going to explain something that presented itself over the weekend that had me on a slow burn wishing the whole situation would just go away and how I solved it.

When I imported a sizable chunk of the UCAN system and was able to start scanning (see other posts above), I noticed that my scanner would spend an inordinate amount of time on TGs from Box Elder, Weber, and Davis Counties in that order. I was getting very little traffic from Tooele, Summit/Wasatch, and Salt Lake Counties, if any. The sites I imported were 001 (Weber County), 002 (Davis County), 003 (Salt Lake County), 004 (Utah County), 007 (Mt. Ogden), and 011 (Nelson Peak) because those sites have given me the best coverage on my BC780XLTs. The software imports the CCs from the RR Db in order from the lowest numbered site to the highest if you select several sites to import at the same time. That’s logical.

Not understanding how the scanner decides what it will scan, I theorized that maybe if I rearranged the order of the CCs in the TSYS frequency list, it would change the emphasis on what the scanner spent time scanning so I manually exchanged the positions of the CC frequencies of sites 001 (Weber) and 003 (Salt Lake) in the TSYS frequency list. At the same time I went through the list of all the TGs and distributed them to different scan lists according to geographical area so I could lockout different areas as it suited me and uploaded the changes to the scanner. The result of making these changes was I ended up with a deaf-mute scanner. Well, not so much. All I could hear at that point was Box Elder! Hmm, what the…? :mad: [The slow burn starts.]

At this point I went through all kinds of trials and tribulations, contortions, pushing this, pulling that, trying this, trying that, and all for naught. All I had was Box Elder County talking to me. HMM, WHAT THE...? :evil: [The burn deepens.]

For some unknown reason which I still do not understand, I decided to check the trunking table. I had entered the custom table (below) sent to me by gadgetmikey with instructions on how to enter it when I first set up the scanner. I could not find it. Hmm, what the…? :confused: (Remember that I have, up to this point, imported all the frequencies and TGs twice before, so I easily could have overwritten the table inadvertently.) So I re-entered it, uploaded it to the scanner, and, EUREKA! :D ...we were off like a turpentined cat! AND…I'm getting equal coverage on all geographical areas without it seeming to spend a lot of time on one area over another, depending, of course, on the traffic volumes.
Code:
[U]Lo Chan[/U] [u]Hi Chan[/u]   [u]Offset[/u]    [u]Base Freq[/u]     [u]Step[/u]
0          439      0       851.012500   25.000
440        559      440     851.025000   25.000
560        719      560     865.012500   25.000
720        759      720     866.000000   25.000
815        831      815     867.000000   25.000
958        958      958     868.975000   25.000
961        1022     961     867.425000   25.000

There is another feature on the GRE that I have learned to love. I have added an audible notification tone and COLORED LED light to the Regional TGs. If there is any traffic on one of the Regional TGs, I get a hi-lo tone and the LED on the face of the scanner comes on. I have chosen a different color for each Regional TG. Very cool feature! :cool:

By the way, have any of you with GREs been picking up a large amount of background noise when listening to TGs from Weber, Davis Counties, and some Salt Lake? I don't get that on the 780s but it is quite noticeable on the 600. I'm wondering if it is a particular site having problems, but why don't I hear it on the Unidens?
 

bneilson

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qlajlu said:
Code:
[U]Lo Chan[/U] [u]Hi Chan[/u]   [u]Offset[/u]    [u]Base Freq[/u]     [u]Step[/u]
0          439      0       851.012500   25.000
440        559      440     851.025000   25.000
560        719      560     865.012500   25.000
720        759      720     866.000000   25.000
815        831      815     867.000000   25.000
958        958      958     868.975000   25.000
961        1022     961     867.425000   25.000

Does this work for rebandaed sites as well and non rebanded sites? I have been using a different table but have not decided if it totally works yet. The one I am using only works for rebanded sites and I have to switch back to 'Default' when I hit a non rebanded site.
 

qlajlu

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Does this work for rebandaed sites as well and non rebanded sites? I have been using a different table but have not decided if it totally works yet. The one I am using only works for rebanded sites and I have to switch back to 'Default' when I hit a non rebanded site.
Ya know, Brett, I noticed that this table was different than the one in the GRE Forum, but it is the one that gadgetmikey supplied. He said it was the rebanded plan and as I recall, he can monitor at least one rebanded site so I just accepted as such. I cannot receive any rebanded sites, yet, from my home so I cannot vouch for it being correct personally, but this table definitely made my scanner sit up and take notice.
 

gadgetmikey

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Brett

It will work with both before and after rebanding sites unless you use freq. that are in between 862.0000 - 865.0000. I don't know of any that UCAN has in this range.

It is basicly the same as the one in the GRE forum just a different way of showing it. My way of looking at it is just easier for me to follow.
 

qlajlu

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GRE Prices

I've had several Utah members contact me about where I bought my GRE. Everyone knows they need to make a change because most of the equipment we are now using either will not be usable or will have limited usage after rebanding in our area is finished and UCAN Engineers are busy changing one site at a time right now.

Also, an investment of this size has a major impact on most everyone's budget so everyone wants the most bang for the buck. I have done some serious surfing tonight because I feel that we can and should help each other in making this transition to the new scanning spectrum here in Utah.

Not everyone will be interested in acquiring a GRE but for those of you who are considering it, here is what I found today (8-19-2008, 1:00 am MDT):

The Radio Company is offering the PSR-500 at $449.95 and the PSR-600 at $444.95 and they say both are currently in stock. They are also offering a RR.com member's discount by calling them and giving them the code in this post. They have a store in Arizona, but sometimes ship from Ohio. They are not listed in the GRE's list of Dealers, but they insist they are authorized. This is a mom-n-pop shop and they are a member of RR.com so they monitor the changing winds by reading and making posts on the Radio Reference GRE Forum. Very friendly.

I bought my GRE from R & R Communications in Wilmington, Delaware. They are now offering both the PSR 500 and 600 for $440 cash or $450 credit card or Pay Pal and they both are in stock. It is better to deal with these folks over the phone. They are also another mom-n-pop shop and super nice.

Ham Radio Outlet has a store in Denver as well as a bunch of stores scattered all over the US. Their current price is $499.99 on both the PSR 500 and 600, and they offer free UPS Ground shipping for orders over $100.

Of course there is Scanner Master which you may have noticed has advertising banners all over Radio Reference Forums. They are also selling both the PSR-500 and 600 for $499.95 and claim to have both in stock.​
These are the places that I was most interested in doing business with because of their proximity to us in Utah or because of price, however, you may want to look over GRE America's Dealer List to shop other outlets. They have quite a few places on their list.

I might also say that in the short week I have had my scanner, all of the prices for GRE PSR-500 and PSR-600 have gone up $15 to $50. I'm usually not so lucky as to slide in under the wire.

EDIT TO ADD: You might be able to find a GRE at a good price on one of the non-industry-related sales sites like eBay or Amazon. Be aware that there have been several PSR-500s reported stolen and a couple have appeared on eBay. RR.com has been notified and has posted the serial numbers of the units stolen. I offer this information just so you will be aware.
 
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bneilson

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Brett

It will work with both before and after rebanding sites unless you use freq. that are in between 862.0000 - 865.0000. I don't know of any that UCAN has in this range.

It is basicly the same as the one in the GRE forum just a different way of showing it. My way of looking at it is just easier for me to follow.

Great! I will program it up and give it a shot. The biggest difference that I can see is the offsets. I will let you know my results.
 

ww7y

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OK, I broke down and ordered a PSR600. Since my BC780XLTs will be used with UniTrunker when the big changes occur and Uniden will probably be months before they get the rebanded firmware out for the BC246T.

Having read this thread, it appears the way to go is the Win500 software and download the systems from RR, so that is my plan. Looks like a few of you have made all the big mistakes already and saved us all lots of time.

Any other suggestions on getting up and running? Should I wait until they start rebanding the local sites or just put in the existing data?

Thanks for your help!
Steve
 

bneilson

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Welcome to the Club...

Should you wait? You could actually sit there with a 600 in the box and not use it???

No man, get it out and start figuring it out.

So I would recommend Win500, it was my personal preference when I was testing the various apps.

I would however NOT recommend running the RR DB programing. You could do an initial download to help get things setup but you will quickly find that you will not be able to find anything. I personally am very picky about the order of my Talk Groups and work hard to make sure they are in order. In the GREs this is done with the object ID (which can be modified in Win500). Think of them like channel numbers and things will go a lot more smooth.

I would say to pull the initial dump from RR and then start arranging the TGs to your liking. There are several of us here to help so don't hesitate to ask.
 

qlajlu

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Should you wait? You could actually sit there with a 600 in the box and not use it???

No man, get it out and start figuring it out.

So I would recommend Win500, it was my personal preference when I was testing the various apps.

I would however NOT recommend running the RR DB programing. You could do an initial download to help get things setup but you will quickly find that you will not be able to find anything. I personally am very picky about the order of my Talk Groups and work hard to make sure they are in order. In the GREs this is done with the object ID (which can be modified in Win500). Think of them like channel numbers and things will go a lot more smooth.

I would say to pull the initial dump from RR and then start arranging the TGs to your liking. There are several of us here to help so don't hesitate to ask.
I would have to agree with bneilson. The learning curve, as previously noted in this thread, is fairly steep for this Object Oriented scanning. However, once you gather some experience you will see that these PSRs are amazingly versatile.

Like you said, Steve, some of us have been down the road so if you get stuck or want some help, ask.

Oh, and another thing bneilson implied that I agree with, "Let a new GRE sit?" That's like hiding a million dollars in your mattress when it could be in a bank earning interest...or something like that. :D

Everyone likes different things. I imported sites 001, 002, 003, 004, 007, and 011 from the RR Db. The software will only import the CCs and identified Alternate CCs from each site you select. You will be given an opportunity to decide which, if any, TGs you want to include in the import then upload it all to the scanner. Like bneilson, I have been through the TGs several times deleting some, adding others, sorting into different scan lists. It will be a continual process. Once "the switch is thrown," it will simply be a matter using the software to change the CCs affected and you should be back up and running again.

A word of warning: There is no help file at the present time with the WIN500 software. The author of the software is in the process of writing it, but you can e-mail him to ask questions about the software. That does not include asking questions about a particular scanner, only on the software.
 

qlajlu

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Changing the Display

One thing that I had become accustomed to on my Uniden 780s was knowing which site they were copying. When I got the GRE up and running, that information seemed lost and since the GRE put all the CCs in one location, you don’t know which site the TG is affiliating when you copy traffic and I missed being able to know.

I missed it to the point that I started a thread in the GRE Forum about it and I also filled out a ticket with GRE's Customer Service. It is possible to get that info. I found using a program such as WIN500 to make these changes was very easy but using the scanner's keys is about as easy, and here is how it is done:
  • The third (middle line) on the display shows VC (voice channel) information. With so many sites, that is superfluous information. Click on PROG > F3 (GLOB soft-key) > FUNC > use the 5-way key to scroll down (or up) in the menu until you find "ShowCCInfo:" and then use the right arrow on the 5-way key to change it to "Yes." Press Save soft-key and you can resume scanning.
  • Now the middle line on your display will alternate the VC channel info and the CC info. The CC info line also tells you which site it is coming from by giving you a number such as "CC04." The number is the position that CC frequency occupies in your TSYS List.
  • Okay, this is not the panacea that you would like because you will have to have a "cheat-sheet" to show you which site's CC frequency is in which position in the TSYS List. You can see how I set up my cheat-sheet here. This is also the same work-around suggested by GRE Customer Service. They admit grossly underestimating the demand for this information, but cannot change things in the 500/600 now.
Once I had the above part taken care of I found that the middle line alternated so that the CC info did not display long enough to get the number so I asked about that too.
  • Press PROG > F3 (GLOB soft-key) and the down arrow on the 5-way key. Scroll down until you find "LCD Blink." There are two settings here, one for how long the first line displays and one for the second. The default is 150 and 50. When you have one of the lines in the correct position, press the right arrow, then use numeric pad (0 - 9) and the CLR key to change this setting. Click Done soft-key then move the second line into position. I set mine to 100 and 100. Click Done soft-key and Save soft-key and go back to scanning.
  • You will now see both lines for the same amount of time. One problem though. If/when you make an upload (edit TGs or frequencies) to the scanner, these Blink settings will go back to default. Also be careful because the LED Blink settings are right there too. Change the right ones.

One thing to remember if you use a program such as WIN500 to make these changes, the numeric keys (0 - 9) on your PC's keyboard DO NOT WORK! You must use the mouse to click the simulated keys in the display on your screen.
 

wbloss

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2 cents

My 2 cents on programming the '500
I took it as a personal challenge that 1 pound of electronics was not going to buffalo me, and have been moderetly successful. Heck I had programmed a Ten-elec back in the 70's so this couldn't be much worse. (The Tenelec was one of the first programmable scanners and had 16 toggleswitches on front and each frequency was a series of 1 & 0's - 155.34 might have been 0010010011001111)
Anyway by d/l the large UCAN file I did pretty good until Logan Peak got rebanded, then GadgetMonkey sent along the CC's. I am using the ARC500 Butel program - works well for me.
Following some of the prior advice I was able to get the VC and CC to show on the 3rd line, then for fun I turned on the "radio ID" in the 4th line so see that. Fairly useful for the USU trunked system, but since all the Cache and Box Elder calls on 800 are ported thru from VHF it does not really ID the actual radio.
Two questions so far...why is the Sl Co Disp TGRP 19712 showing up on Logan Peak?
Also from time to time on the old NSCPAC freqs (eg 866.6875) when searching I get a very odd set of beeps - not a trunked "chainsaw' type buzz, but a disjointed set of high and low fast beeps and boops apparently 24x7. Wazzat?

Wally
WB0BAV
 

qlajlu

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...why is the Sl Co Disp TGRP 19712 showing up on Logan Peak?

Wally
WB0BAV
This is what is called "Affiliation" and I cannot explain it sufficiently. However, if you will follow this link, you will find a pretty good discussion on it that is fairly easy to understand. What you have described also happens when the UHP has its motor squad in the Logan area during the car shows there. On the other end of the spectrum, I can hear Cache County occasionnally here at my house in Kearns.

Unfortunately, I do not have an answer for your other question.
 

wbloss

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AHA Affiliation - thanks GLAJLU, that helped. I shoulda looked at the WIKI!
My trunking experience previously was in a one-town system; not a biggie like UCAN.
Thanks!

Wally
 

ww7y

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Are you listening any to the Test Range this week? Yesterday there was very little traffic, but today there was a lot. Sounds like they did bomb drops this morning. I'm watching Site 4.

What bandplan data do you have in the PSR500 for this? When downloading data for Wasatch Front Federal from RR for Win500, I get a warning that the bandplan is not correct. It shows the following:

Lo Hi Offset Base Step
408 759 408 406.5000 12.5


My PSR600 should be here anyday and I'm trying to get WIN500 ready for programming.

Steve
 

bneilson

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Federal error is ok...

I get the same error in Win500 on the Federal system however it works just fine.

I just pulled it down and programed it up and was able to monitor Site 1 and Site 4 without issue.

I was also picking up a few unknown TGs so I might have to some more listening to the system. Unfortunately from my desk, I can not copy any of the CCs on the system, so I have to go outside :mad:
 

gldavis

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I'm outa state for the week, so the delay. As for the Fed Trunk, I just loaded the data from RR and it works on all four sites. I do have some more data to add to the Database, but it will have to wait till I get back.
 
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