ground rod depth

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SquierStrat

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i know the NEC requires the ground rod to be 8 feet deep for the electrical service to your house.. Was just wondering what everyones thoughts are in regards to ground rod depth, for the ground to your radio. or antenna... Are there any risks/disadvantages to having it only 7 feet deep? or 6 feet? how about 4?
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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i know the NEC requires the ground rod to be 8 feet deep for the electrical service to your house.. Was just wondering what everyones thoughts are in regards to ground rod depth, for the ground to your radio. or antenna... Are there any risks/disadvantages to having it only 7 feet deep? or 6 feet? how about 4?

A lot really depends upon conductivity of the soil. You are far better off with multiple rods around the building and/or tower than a single rod, and whatever grounding system you install needs to be bonded to the main service ground of the building. Look up Motorola R56, ARRL's grounding recommendations and also Polyphaser's white papers on grounding.

Keep in mind the 8 foot rod that was installed at your residence may have become a 4 foot rod due to corrosion over decades.
 

SquierStrat

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That all makes sense...

Made me think of another question.. Ive never left the house with my radio, but when a guy takes his radio out to the top of a hill and sets it up on a picnic table, and mounts his antenna on a tripod, does he drive a ground rod? Or how does one ground all of that in a situation like that? Use the vehicle frame?
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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That all makes sense...

Made me think of another question.. Ive never left the house with my radio, but when a guy takes his radio out to the top of a hill and sets it up on a picnic table, and mounts his antenna on a tripod, does he drive a ground rod? Or how does one ground all of that in a situation like that? Use the vehicle frame?
A ground rod serves one main purpose. Conducting lightning to the earth and providing protection of the building. As far as protecting the radio, surge protectors are required.

As for the radio signal, a counterpoise does half of the work. If you have a G5RV antenna or center fed half wave dipole the radio signals don't require return to earth.

A quarter wave vertical antenna or a long wire antenna requires a counterpoise which can be earth. And indeed a small ground rod will be of value, even at a picnic table. Usually a counterpoise in the form of a ground plane or array of buried wires provides counterpoise for HF ertical antennas.

Many times an antenna tuner is used to give the radio a correct impedance match. This is practical but inefficient.

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prcguy

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Most of the ground rod's I've seen installed at mountain top repeater sites and satellite ground stations are 10ft long. The site I worked at for 18yrs had all the 10ft ground rods buried 4ft under ground making them 14ft deep.
 

lmrtek

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Multiple short rods are better than one long one in many cases.
I have many mountain top tower sites using multiple
rods shorter than 8 feet.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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It is all about elimination of transient voltage differential. I was in a plane struck by lightning, nothing bad happened and we didn't have a ground rod!

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TailGator911

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Years ago, when I lived in Florida, I took a fellow ham's advice and grounded into the main grnd rod for the electric in the house. I also bought this little copper rod for under the desk (with 8 wingnut posts and a single out to grnd) which I used to ground to the center screw on the wall outlet. Big Ooops. Yeah all of my radios were noisy with static, and when my wife turned on the microwave? Fuggitaboutit. So I rewired to a ground rod outside my base station, but realized the wall wart ground wasn't working inside either - this was the source for all the household noise. Ran a single #2 ground wire from the copper junction post to a separate ground rod outside the shack. Bingo. Full quieting on all radios. Some advice, huh. He swears it works for him!

I have the same setup here at this shack, all inside radios to the wingnut bar then outside to a separate 4-ft copper ground rod. All antennas to a separate ground rod at the mast with minimal straight line #2 ground wire runs. Both ground rods only 4-ft deep. I have good quieting on all radios.

JD
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prcguy

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Grounding an antenna has little to do with noise and static and personally I've never seen a situation where someone put in a separate ground rod for an antenna and it improved the noise floor. Noise doesn't automatically follow a path to ground and in many cases a house ground is polluted with noise and connecting to it will bring that noise into your station.

You should always ground to NEC where any additional ground rods are bonded to the main house ground, then diagnose noise problems and fix as needed. If you have your antenna connected to a separate ground rod that is not bonded to your main house ground, and you have a lightning strike to the power lines where your house might otherwise survive, you could damage your radios connected to the antenna with a floating ground rod. This is because the ground potential of everything in the house can raise thousands of volts but since they are all sharing the same ground potential they all raise together and it can be survivable. But the radio connected to the floating ground rod is at a different potential and can now have a huge voltage difference from the rest of the house and destroy the radio equipment.

So ground to NEC, use good common mode RF chokes on your feedlines and you can also wrap non critical ground wires around ferrite cores to keep wall wart and similar noise from traveling through your ground system. A "critical" ground wire would be from antennas, masts, towers, etc to a ground rod or additional ground rods to the main house ground. These need to be low resistance, low inductance, few or no bends, etc, to carry as much lightning energy to ground. There are entire books dedicated to the amount of wire bends, bend radius, length, etc, allowed on grounding tower legs and similar critical points of an antenna system.

A non critical ground wire that you can choke for noise might be from your ground bus bar at the radios to the common house ground where its keeping the radios at the same potential as the house ground. You can wrap 10-12 turns of that ground wire around an FT-240-31 core to keep RF pollution on your house ground away from the radios. Common mode RF chokes on the feedlines right at the radio will further isolate the radios from noise pollution on the house ground system.



Years ago, when I lived in Florida, I took a fellow ham's advice and grounded into the main grnd rod for the electric in the house. I also bought this little copper rod for under the desk (with 8 wingnut posts and a single out to grnd) which I used to ground to the center screw on the wall outlet. Big Ooops. Yeah all of my radios were noisy with static, and when my wife turned on the microwave? Fuggitaboutit. So I rewired to a ground rod outside my base station, but realized the wall wart ground wasn't working inside either - this was the source for all the household noise. Ran a single #2 ground wire from the copper junction post to a separate ground rod outside the shack. Bingo. Full quieting on all radios. Some advice, huh. He swears it works for him!

I have the same setup here at this shack, all inside radios to the wingnut bar then outside to a separate 4-ft copper ground rod. All antennas to a separate ground rod at the mast with minimal straight line #2 ground wire runs. Both ground rods only 4-ft deep. I have good quieting on all radios.

JD
kf4anc
 

drsl2000

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It is all about elimination of transient voltage differential. I was in a plane struck by lightning, nothing bad happened and we didn't have a ground rod!

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Airplanes are flying Faraday Cages. The energy literally goes around the skin.
 

TailGator911

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Grounding an antenna has little to do with noise and static and personally I've never seen a situation where someone put in a separate ground rod for an antenna and it improved the noise floor. Noise doesn't automatically follow a path to ground and in many cases a house ground is polluted with noise and connecting to it will bring that noise into your station.

I had so much noise that I never had before, so I knew that the only thing I did differently was take my friend's advice about grounding to existing ground rods/house ground, so I changed it all. I don't know the exact source or the who what where or why, but when I changed it all - poof. Noise gone. It definitely improved the noise floor for me :)


JD
kf4anc
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Airplanes are flying Faraday Cages. The energy literally goes around the skin.

Exactly! There is only one electrical potential and it is the skin of the plane. And that is what one should seek by BONDING (See Motorola R56) all of their electronics to a common single point ground. That ground, needs to be bonded to the electrical utility service ground.
 

mmckenna

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Ground rod length is dictated by the NEC, however to do it right, you need to look at ground resistance. Motorola R36 recommends 25Ω. That takes the right test gear to measure, but that's what you are aiming for.

For a hobbyist, an 8 foot ground rod is a good start. Bonding it to the house ground rod is required.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Bonding cannot be overemphasized. Some years back, we had a customer in the FL panhandle that had some excavation done around the tower site. In the process some ground conductors were disturbed. The contractor made the required repairs. All looked and measured well. Then lightning season arrived and that site took three hits, each resulting in extensive damage.

Turns out one buried bonding conductor was not repaired properly and the site was getting a voltage differential from one side to the other.



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jim202

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Having worked in the cellular market for many years, one thing I learned was that a good ground is very important. With that said, ground rods do not last forever. Depending on the acidity of your soil, you might want to consider replacing your house electrical ground rod if the house is more than say 10 years or so.

The ground rods tend to get surface oxidation and if that happens, they will loose the low resistance grounding they are being relied on to protect everything and everyone. Reason being is that my house had sustained damage from a lightning strike to a tree near the house. Did all sorts of damage to electronic equipment in the house. Even though I had surge protection on many of the outlets feeding the individual items.

Having a ground resistance tester available to me, I got curious about the actual resistance of my house electrical ground rod. I killed the main circuit breaker, disconnected the electrical meter ground from the ground rod and proceeded to measure it's resistance. What I found was not a 5 Ohm resistance to ground or even 25 Ohms, but on the order of over 200 Ohms.

So now I know why so much electronic damage was done by the near strike to the house. I went out and bought 2 new ground rods. Installed them 16 feet apart and bonded them together and tied the electrical meter to the new ground rods. One quick comment about multiple ground rods. There is a cone of influence around each ground rod. If you space them closer than twice their length, your not obtaining the lowest resistance for the amount of money you have spent on each ground rod. Go do your own homework if you think I am just blowing smoke about the ground rod spacing of twice their length.

I did do another ground resistance measurement before connecting the electrical meter ground wire back to the ground rod under the meter. It measured about 2 Ohms. So now I knew that there was a low resistance ground available to the electrical meter and the neutral / ground at the electrical meter. Your type of soil will effect the resistance. In sandy soil, it might take ground rods that go 40 feet down to get a good low resistance.

Most people never think about the age or ground resistance of the most important portion of the house electrical wiring. You can never have a better ground than a new one. Age works against low resistance grounding. The type of connections also make an important portion of your grounding. I like to use an exothermic weld type of connection. But for the average person, this is not cost effective.

Never use bare copper against a galvanized surface. The copper will etch the zinc out of the galvanization over time and with the normal moisture that occurs outdoors. This is why you will always see a bronze connector used to connect a copper wire to a galvanized surface.

Hope this little tid bit of information gives some of you food for thought. Another old wives tale you constantly hear in the radio chat groups is you can't survive a direct hit on a tower. This too is not true. I have been at a number of towers that have taken a direct hit. The equipment has stayed operational with no damage. But you can be sure the tower legs will produce steam from the high current of the strike going through them in the rain.

The reason the equipment has stayed operational is due to a good low resistance grounding system. The system operators could not stand to keep replacing equipment after every storm that rolls through. It would not be financially practical. So they do spend some money and put in a good, low resistance grounding system. You will notice that I said grounding system. This includes surge suppression, good bonding between equipment racks and a good grounding system inside the equipment shelter or equipment building.
 
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RFI-EMI-GUY

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^ What he said 10X!!!

I might add that removing the conductor from your existing utility (NEC) ground rod requires the utmost care and caution, turning off the main breaker etc. But beware that if the utility has poor grounding at the transformer, current might be returning to earth through your drop. So for most people simply adding additional rods to the existing rod without disconnecting it is probably the safest direction to go. In my case I added a bronze clamp to the existing conductor and ran my own branches to the new rods. In every house that I have done this, I measured a significant voltage differential between the new rods and the old, so an improvement was likely.
 

rufust

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Trailer Ground ?

In a lot model mobile home with an oversize extention cord for power where would the ground be ? Trailer plugs into a box outside.Setting up an antenna on a 15 ft pole for the winter.Going to put a few ground rods in but how should I ground inside ?
 

jim202

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In a lot model mobile home with an oversize extention cord for power where would the ground be ? Trailer plugs into a box outside.Setting up an antenna on a 15 ft pole for the winter.Going to put a few ground rods in but how should I ground inside ?

If you go to your breaker panel, there is a ground buss inside. That is where you really should go to connect a ground wire. Problem is now your getting into an issue with the NEC (National Electrical Code) about multiple grounds. This can be a can of worms. But the frame of the mobile home really needs to be grounded.

If nothing else, I would add a ground wire to the frame of the trailer. Use a good sized wire, like a #2 for the ground. Then run it out from under the trailer to an 8 foot ground rod you drive into the earth. Soil conditions will dictate just how easy or hard the ground rod will go in. I would dig about a 6 inch hole with a shovel first and fill the hole up with water a few times before trying to drive the rod into the ground. Take the rod and push it down by hand as much as you can. Pull the rod out and push it in again with water in the hole. Do this several times before using a driver or sledge hammer. You might have a second person help in this effort.
 

prcguy

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If the trailer has no ground rod the appropriate place to attach it would be the ground buss at the breaker panel. I would use an ohm meter or trace ground wiring to see if the frame is already grounded to the breaker panel. The few trailers I've dealt with had the frames grounded to the electrical system.

If you install a ground rod check with NEC on the proper size wire and maximum length allowed. Code generally requires the ground rod wire is encased in a conduit of some kind.

For installing a ground rod the best thing to use is a hammer drill with ground rod adapter. Without that you can make a slide hammer using about 2ft of 3/4" galv steel pipe with a pipe cap on one end and a flange on the other. Then get some weights from a weight lifting set and stack some on the pipe between the cap and flange. You also need to pack some washers or other metal inside the pipe cap so the top of the ground rod doesn't blow it out. Then slide the contraption over the ground rod, lift, then let the weights do the work. The rod will go in fast with no hassles. You might have to use a sledge hammer for the last 2ft sticking out of the ground.


If you go to your breaker panel, there is a ground buss inside. That is where you really should go to connect a ground wire. Problem is now your getting into an issue with the NEC (National Electrical Code) about multiple grounds. This can be a can of worms. But the frame of the mobile home really needs to be grounded.

If nothing else, I would add a ground wire to the frame of the trailer. Use a good sized wire, like a #2 for the ground. Then run it out from under the trailer to an 8 foot ground rod you drive into the earth. Soil conditions will dictate just how easy or hard the ground rod will go in. I would dig about a 6 inch hole with a shovel first and fill the hole up with water a few times before trying to drive the rod into the ground. Take the rod and push it down by hand as much as you can. Pull the rod out and push it in again with water in the hole. Do this several times before using a driver or sledge hammer. You might have a second person help in this effort.
 
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