Ground rod help

Status
Not open for further replies.

RFI-EMI-GUY

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
6,859
I had to wonder about the fire code for awhile, and its application to homes... The part I'm wondering about is when electric utilities move from poles to underground, if the loss of any lightning protection provided by utility poles needs to be readdressed.

Thanks for making me think about it, .... :)

Joel

The grounded catenary wire does provide an effective protective sphere. NASA uses that technique around the launch pads. So yeah, the tallest things around here are roofs, chimneys and occasional light pole. The light poles are fed underground, by the secondary of the same transformer feeding homes, so the surge on those has to be considered.
 

MUTNAV

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
1,064
The grounded catenary wire does provide an effective protective sphere. NASA uses that technique around the launch pads. So yeah, the tallest things around here are roofs, chimneys and occasional light pole. The light poles are fed underground, by the secondary of the same transformer feeding homes, so the surge on those has to be considered.

So should that trigger different requirements for home lightning protection, having poles vs. an underground distribution system?

Thanks
Joel
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
6,859
So should that trigger different requirements for home lightning protection, having poles vs. an underground distribution system?

Thanks
Joel
It does not here in Florida. The utilities will gladly "rent" you home house protection in the form of a surge protector that goes under the meter base. I got such an offer right after my April 15 lightning strike. They apparently used their lightning detection network to send a post card to me with an offer. Never mind that it would not have protected much in my case.
 

Zigzag03

Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2022
Messages
11
As far as concrete pads. It would be great to go under them or around them, but that is not always possible. In my case, to complete the ring, I will have to go past the driveway and a sidewalk. The expansion joint is the only way for the driveway. The sidewalk, I may be able to drive under the sandy soil. I also have a pool deck and have not decided whether to go around it or pass through the channel drain seperating the pool from the house. I really should spend the money and go around the pool entirely.

My philosophy is that the grounding systems for homes are entirely inadequate for modern electronics and anything I can do to improve the bonding and equalization of ground potential for the systems inside is worth the effort even if some compromises have to be made. Here in Florida we have no requirement for "lightning rods", aka air terminals, for single family residences. I have a metal chimney cap extending far above the roof that appears to have been struck, also metal flashing, fan vents and gutters. Our fire code does not address this, yet there are attic fires. I intend to ground those at some point as well.


I'm going to wire it up as best I can and give it a go. Nothing is irreplaceable. A rod on either end of the house has been in my thoughts for a long while. I ought to have enough in the ground one way or the other to give it a place to go.
 

MUTNAV

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
1,064
It does not here in Florida. The utilities will gladly "rent" you home house protection in the form of a surge protector that goes under the meter base. I got such an offer right after my April 15 lightning strike. They apparently used their lightning detection network to send a post card to me with an offer. Never mind that it would not have protected much in my case.

I was thinking maybe the N.E.C. (it's reviewed on a three year cycle) people could think about addressing it. Lots of fires caused by lightning.


Thanks
Joel
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2018
Messages
869
...........I was going to ask you about St Elmo's fire, you said you do SOTA (Summits on the air ) occasionally, and I was wondering how you deal with it... I've heard that at some locations, just raising a mitten above your head will attract a lot of static, what to do about antennas ! ! ! (except get to a lower location).......
Joel, (
MUTVAV)


What do we do about it ? :rolleyes:

Not much.

"St Elmo's fire occurs in the same type of electrically charged atmosphere that causes lightning to occur. If you observe the former, it may be an indication that a lightning storm is imminent or nearby. It should serve as a warning to take cover...... " an Anonymous Faie :giggle:

That is probably a very vague way to put it, but I trust her.

23027-Tinkerbell.gif




________________________________________________________________________

Its quite common around my home, especially when clouds settle over the mountain tops. My buildings sits at about 10,000 feet-- not too far below the treeline- and here we have a first row seat for all sorts of---what John Denver sang about in his Rocky Mountain High- "fire in the sky?"

-AICC2-8.jpg


But so far we have lived in a peaceful co-existence. Every is grounded; there are surge protectors galore-- that's about it. I listed earlier a IEEE pamphlet addressing lightning --and follow it careful---
But the St. Elmo fires ? - well, they are quite the harmless Faies.....


.489d3c.jpeg

Harmless to us anyway (knocking on wood) .... and when not on the mountain peaks, that is-----


But up at the high elevations, when metallic objects begin to ring and glow with green coronas, your hair stands up straight--- you are not that far off from a lightning strike. That's when you move your sorry arse down the mountain fast !

Cathedral-And-St-Elmo.jpg

(A few years back I wrote about some St. Elmo's fire encounters and posted them in the RR Forums..... here's one:

)

........................... SCPD was me once upon a time.... :giggle:


Lauri


2014-10-29.png


.
 
Last edited:

laidback

RailFanning is a way of Life
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
266
Location
Northeast Indiana
I'm setting up a long wire antenna, and many sources suggest adding a ground rod. My home already has a ground rod, and so I'm wondering if I need another one dedicated to the radio platform, or can I just run a wire to a nearby outlet box which is presumably already grounded by the house. If another rod is recommended, do I need to go with an 8' copper rod as is code for most structures today (or so I read) or will less length do the job? Just wondering what you folks do for your own setups. Thanks. zz03
 

Attachments

  • Reeve_AntennaSystemGroundingRequirements.pdf
    446.8 KB · Views: 11
Joined
Jun 13, 2018
Messages
869
lightning2.jpg


Now THIS is a Lightning rod!!
(its about 10 inches diameter , ~40 feet tall, and set into the earth halfway to China)



lightning-1.jpg


You better believe things get lively on this mountain when the warnings read like this ---- been there, done that ! ;)


Lauri

.
 

MUTNAV

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
1,064
...........I was going to ask you about St Elmo's fire, you said you do SOTA (Summits on the air ) occasionally, and I was wondering how you deal with it... I've heard that at some locations, just raising a mitten above your head will attract a lot of static, what to do about antennas ! ! ! (except get to a lower location).......
Joel, (
MUTVAV)


What do we do about it ? :rolleyes:

Not much.

"St Elmo's fire occurs in the same type of electrically charged atmosphere that causes lightning to occur. If you observe the former, it may be an indication that a lightning storm is imminent or nearby. It should serve as a warning to take cover...... " an Anonymous Faie :giggle:

That is probably a very vague way to put it, but I trust her.

View attachment 124919




________________________________________________________________________

Its quite common around my home, especially when clouds settle over the mountain tops. My buildings sits at about 10,000 feet-- not too far below the treeline- and here we have a first row seat for all sorts of---what John Denver sang about in his Rocky Mountain High- "fire in the sky?"

View attachment 124908


But so far we have lived in a peaceful co-existence. Every is grounded; there are surge protectors galore-- that's about it. I listed earlier a IEEE pamphlet addressing lightning --and follow it careful---
But the St. Elmo fires ? - well, they are quite the harmless Faies.....


.View attachment 124915

Harmless to us anyway (knocking on wood) .... and when not on the mountain peaks, that is-----


But up at the high elevations, when metallic objects begin to ring and glow with green coronas, your hair stands up straight--- you are not that far off from a lightning strike. That's when you move your sorry arse down the mountain fast !

View attachment 124912

(A few years back I wrote about some St. Elmo's fire encounters and posted them in the RR Forums..... here's one:

)

........................... SCPD was me once upon a time.... :giggle:


Lauri


View attachment 124916


.
Thanks.... I was under the impression that the St Elmos fire also occurred just under dry windy conditions on mountain tops. Leading me to think that it would be possible to continue operating...

I did have hair stand on end once, while working on a tube transmitter something was shorting out in the tubes tuning cavities... so to check if it was the tubes or not, I removed the vacuum tubes from the cavities and turned power on to see if the circuit breakers would still trip....

They didn't (yea for me), and then the hair on my thumbs stood on end, followed by a flash from the tubes tuning cavities through my finger and out my thumbs knuckle. I was asked by my co-worker if I got burned (no, of course not), and then, he went outside to see if someone was starting a chicken barbecue in preperation for lunch (we were outside in a tent), as it turned out, when burned, I smell like chicken. :(

So... Long story short, when elmos fire or hair standing on end occurs, I either crouch down and stand on my toes in an open field, or evacuate to a safer location if possible.

Thanks
Joel


Thanks
Joel
 

spanky15805

Newbie
Joined
Sep 18, 2004
Messages
305
Lauri...You have to show picutres of THAT counterpoise or it doesn't exist. :) Would also explain what happens to all the Costco epsom salt...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top