Does it matter if I use copper or aluminum ground wire?
JRed
JRed
Ground Wire
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Al42
Member
Not really. They'll both bleed off static about the same, and they'll both vaporize just as fast if you get a direct hit. Aluminum's cheaper and will last longer, though.
Hi all,
Aluminium conductors are to be avoided for one reason, corrosion. The best example I can give is my experience removing an Amateur Radio antenna that had been up for about 10 years for a lady when her husband passed away. He had used the all too common 8ga aluminium grounding wire used on TV antenna and other installations and it looked pretty good until I touched it, then it came apart in my hands. It had become stiff and brittle with deep corrosion not aparant at first glance. No wonder it's not sold anymore, at least I haven't seen it in many years.
The final authority is the National Electrical Code (NEC) which is considered "the electrician's Bible" but based on the above and other lousy experiences with aluminium wire I simply would choose copper. I say use the heaviest practical or 4" solid copper strap if possible since it's the RF engineer's weapon of choice.
Naturally one may expect endless discussion and debate as opinions vary.
Aluminium conductors are to be avoided for one reason, corrosion. The best example I can give is my experience removing an Amateur Radio antenna that had been up for about 10 years for a lady when her husband passed away. He had used the all too common 8ga aluminium grounding wire used on TV antenna and other installations and it looked pretty good until I touched it, then it came apart in my hands. It had become stiff and brittle with deep corrosion not aparant at first glance. No wonder it's not sold anymore, at least I haven't seen it in many years.
The final authority is the National Electrical Code (NEC) which is considered "the electrician's Bible" but based on the above and other lousy experiences with aluminium wire I simply would choose copper. I say use the heaviest practical or 4" solid copper strap if possible since it's the RF engineer's weapon of choice.
Naturally one may expect endless discussion and debate as opinions vary.
bsavery
Member
The NEC is not only the "Electrician's Bible", but it's also the law in most, if not all states.
Bob
Bob
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N_Jay
Guest
bsavery said:
While the NEC is the electricians bible, (and like the bible is interpreted in many conflicting ways), it is NOT the law in many states.
It may be the law in many localities, but often not the current version.
A locality, City, County, Township, etc may adopt a version that is several years old. It is very rare for the current version to be adopted the year it is released.
There are still many areas with either their own electrical code, or the NEC with local modifications, or no code at all.
bsavery
Member
N_Jay said:
Which is why I said "most". To be accurate though, I should have said in 48 states it's the law. In Hawaii and Pennsylvania, you'd have to check with your local Authority Having Jurisdiction.
N_Jay said:
With the possible exception of areas of the states above, I doubt you'd find any that have no electrical code at all.
You are correct that many are a version or more behind though. Nebraska for example uses the 2002 year code, while areas under authority of the city of Omaha use the 2004 code. And Omaha just recently adopted that even though the 2005 code is out.
NEC (aka NFPA 70) and the rest of the Fire and Life Safety codes can be found here... http://www.nfpa.org
Bob
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N_Jay
Guest
bsavery said:
There are plenty of rural areas with no electrical code (or one so old and weak that common sense takes over).
I do not think many states have adopted any code, almost all codes are adopted at the local level. (States may adopt a code for areas of their responsibility such as State owned/controlled buildings).
For example, Chicago and much of urbanized IL uses the Chicago Electrical code, not the NEC.
Old codes are adopted to allow time for the changes to be incorporated into products and procedures. It is not an oversight, as you (slightly) imply.
bsavery
Member
Note the graphic HERE
I suppose it's possible a state might have adopted the Code with an exemption for rural areas. Not likely, but possible. AFAIK, adoption of a code at the state level is binding in all areas of the state.
Enforcement of the code in rural areas on the other hand..... :roll:
Yes, Chicago has it's own version of electric code. Many cities do. Every one of them I've run into add additional requirements or restrictions to the NEC, not exempt people from following the requirements of the code.
And if I implied anything about people having older codes in force, it wasn't intentional. As you say, in a lot of cases it's to allow time people to be retrained and products to catch up. Also a jurisdiction may decide the changes don't apply to their area and choose not to adopt them. And in some cases, the "latest" version of the code may be several years old. The other 2 codes that directly impact me on a daily basis, NFPA 1 and NFPA 101 were last issued in 2003.
Bob
I suppose it's possible a state might have adopted the Code with an exemption for rural areas. Not likely, but possible. AFAIK, adoption of a code at the state level is binding in all areas of the state.
Enforcement of the code in rural areas on the other hand..... :roll:
Yes, Chicago has it's own version of electric code. Many cities do. Every one of them I've run into add additional requirements or restrictions to the NEC, not exempt people from following the requirements of the code.
And if I implied anything about people having older codes in force, it wasn't intentional. As you say, in a lot of cases it's to allow time people to be retrained and products to catch up. Also a jurisdiction may decide the changes don't apply to their area and choose not to adopt them. And in some cases, the "latest" version of the code may be several years old. The other 2 codes that directly impact me on a daily basis, NFPA 1 and NFPA 101 were last issued in 2003.
Bob
Now what did I say about endless debate? It's not even about grounding either, sheesh! (;->)
k0pwo
Member
hey n-jay.. as i look around at various forums that you post in.. why is it that you seem to stir up debate and content everytime you post a reply.. why is that.. just curious..
Dave
Dave
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N_Jay
Guest
k0pwo said:
Because I usually post to correct some misinformation.
and many people defend their misinformation vehemently.
I also tend to use sarcastic humor to make my point, and many people interpret it is a personal attack.
N
N_Jay
Guest
bsavery said:
Bob,
I have sent an email to the NFPA to get clarification on the meaning of the map/graphic.
http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarc...Adoption-Status-Update-June-2003~20050428.php
http://www.neccode.com/necadoptionlist.php
It seems that "adoption" at the state level may be for training/testing/certification of electricians and not necessarily adoption of the code itself.
k0pwo
Member
Ok N-Jay, just wondering
As for the NEC adoption. Being a master electrician myself I can maybe shed some light on this topic.
The NEC is only a guideline to be used by the jurisdiction, whether it be city, county, state or federal. Usually the NEC is adopted at the end of the year in which it is issued. Currently the 2005 NEC is in the process of being adopted. The 2002 NEC is still currently in effect in most jurisdicions, but that is not to say that some places are still using 1999 or 1996 because I have run into some of those jurisdictions.
Dave
As for the NEC adoption. Being a master electrician myself I can maybe shed some light on this topic.
The NEC is only a guideline to be used by the jurisdiction, whether it be city, county, state or federal. Usually the NEC is adopted at the end of the year in which it is issued. Currently the 2005 NEC is in the process of being adopted. The 2002 NEC is still currently in effect in most jurisdicions, but that is not to say that some places are still using 1999 or 1996 because I have run into some of those jurisdictions.
Dave
K0JAD
Member
Grounding is effective for transient strikes nearby.....
BUT a direct hit means....bye, bye, antenna, maybe tower and rotor and all feed line and ground material. Most people think they are well grounded and need not worry about a strike.....WRONG....a close direct strike vaporizes it all.
BUT a direct hit means....bye, bye, antenna, maybe tower and rotor and all feed line and ground material. Most people think they are well grounded and need not worry about a strike.....WRONG....a close direct strike vaporizes it all.
N
N_Jay
Guest
Re: Grounding is effective for transient strikes nearby.....
Yes and no.
If you put in a system like a commercial tower, they can take strikes all day!
If you don't, well hope only the electronic equipment is damaged.
K0JAD said:
Yes and no.
If you put in a system like a commercial tower, they can take strikes all day!
If you don't, well hope only the electronic equipment is damaged.
fourwd1
Member
N_Jay said:
He craves attention, and to up his post count. :roll:
N
N_Jay
Guest
fourwd1 said:
Very funny!
If it was post count, I would be posting links to unrelated articles, posting jokes on the joke thread, responding to posts with just a smiley or two (When they are not about one of my posts).
So why don't you scan this entire forum and look for some of those traits, then you will know who is a post count hound!
N
N_Jay
Guest
bsavery said:
Just got off the phone with NFPA (Geeze, was expecting an email back at the most).
Seems that map just shows states where there is SOME adoption of the NEC by Someone (County, City or State).
Most adoption of the NEC (per NFPA) is at the local level, not the state level.
N
nmfire10
Guest
fourwd1 said:
Case and point. He's probably one of the ones who will vehemently defend his misinformation.
bsavery
Member
N_Jay said:
Sheeze... You'da thunk when I saw red states and blue states, I'd have gotten a clue!! :lol:
Thanks... learn more and more every day. Now if I just wouldn't forget it almost as fast! :?
Bob
Oh... and sarcastic??? Someone around here is actually sarcastic?? Where?? We'll beat some sense in da fool!! :wink:
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