Grounding a Diamond D130J?

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GeneseeCoMI

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How will grounding my Diamond D130J affect my reception on the HF/VHF/UHF bands? I'm having some guys coming over on Monday to do it already but I was just wondering what to expect when they're done and if there will be a difference or not. If you've done it with yours or someone you know has done so, what were the before and after results?
 

Fast1eddie

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Grounding D130J

Yes, installing a proper ground will not only cut down on the electrical noise, but enhance reception. Prior to moving, my most recent install consisted of several lengths of interconnecting TV mast. With a sanding wheel on my drill, I ground off the paint to shiny metal, then constructed several thick copper wire jumpers which were physically connected to each mast with quarter inch bit tips self threading machine screws. Verified connectivity on each now joined mast section with my VOM. After verifying connectivity with my VOM, I applied liberal amounts of RTV and returned the next day after curing had taken place. TIme for a beer!

Took a 4 foot copper grounding rod and blasted it into the ground. Connected to the bottom mast with thick copper ground wire jumper as mentioned above (forget the gauge but workable) and soaked the earth.

Ran my RG 213 coax to the receiver multicoupler and was very impressed with reception throughout the spectrum. I enjoy monitoring vhf low band, and caught some nice dx. Although I had a inverted Vee for HF, the discone performed extremely well there.

My shack was in a garage and my total mast length was 25 feet. Used knock off parachute cord to lash the mast to external door hinges that were no longer in use.

Finally, I always kept the ground moist, when we would go to the field for exercises, the field urinal drain was always placed adjacent to our grounding rods. You'll see that mentioned in older Army Special Forces Field Communications Field Manuals. I managed to learn a few things in the army.....

My receivers in use are a Icom R7100 and a Icom R71A.

Now divorced and enjoying apartment living, I am being creative with inside wires and such.

Hope this helps, and I wish you good signals.

ed
 

GeneseeCoMI

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Mount Morris, Michigan
Yes, installing a proper ground will not only cut down on the electrical noise, but enhance reception. Prior to moving, my most recent install consisted of several lengths of interconnecting TV mast. With a sanding wheel on my drill, I ground off the paint to shiny metal, then constructed several thick copper wire jumpers which were physically connected to each mast with quarter inch bit tips self threading machine screws. Verified connectivity on each now joined mast section with my VOM. After verifying connectivity with my VOM, I applied liberal amounts of RTV and returned the next day after curing had taken place. TIme for a beer!

Took a 4 foot copper grounding rod and blasted it into the ground. Connected to the bottom mast with thick copper ground wire jumper as mentioned above (forget the gauge but workable) and soaked the earth.

Ran my RG 213 coax to the receiver multicoupler and was very impressed with reception throughout the spectrum. I enjoy monitoring vhf low band, and caught some nice dx. Although I had a inverted Vee for HF, the discone performed extremely well there.

My shack was in a garage and my total mast length was 25 feet. Used knock off parachute cord to lash the mast to external door hinges that were no longer in use.

Finally, I always kept the ground moist, when we would go to the field for exercises, the field urinal drain was always placed adjacent to our grounding rods. You'll see that mentioned in older Army Special Forces Field Communications Field Manuals. I managed to learn a few things in the army.....

My receivers in use are a Icom R7100 and a Icom R71A.

Now divorced and enjoying apartment living, I am being creative with inside wires and such.

Hope this helps, and I wish you good signals.

ed

Thanks for the input. I'm excited to finally enhance my reception. More importantly, to decrease my RF noise. There's just way too much of it, especially on HF.
 

parnass

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If the Diamond D130J is like a traditional discone, the vertical element is not supposed to be grounded. You ground the mast on which the discone is mounted.
 

GeneseeCoMI

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If the Diamond D130J is like a traditional discone, the vertical element is not supposed to be grounded. You ground the mast on which the discone is mounted.

I thought grounding the antenna itself is supposed to improve reception and reduce interference? I'm confused. Please explain.

Also I forgot to mention I have a pair of TV antennas (Channel Master CM4228HD and Radio Shack U75R, both of which have their own pre-amp) on the same solid metal (unknown material) rod chimney mount . How do I ground them? Can the whole mounting pipe just have one grounding wire?
 
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prcguy

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Consider a Discone autonomous when operated within its rated frequency range. It works the same hanging in free space or mounted to a metal mast or whatever.

If you were to use it for HF reception where it becomes an E field probe, then the coax and mast and other things can affect its performance some, but you wouldn't usually buy a scanner Discone for HF reception anyway.

If you have some RFI induced on your coax from inside the building and it travels up the coax and radiates into the antenna, then placing the coax inside a mast and or grounding the mast may or may not have an effect on the RFI.

Some antennas are influenced by mounting to a mast and/or mast grounding and these are either antennas designed to have an additional counterpoise or ground, or some of the CB antennas out there which are not decoupled very well and the mast and coax and your mic cord become part of the antenna system because the antenna mfr is not very good at designing antennas. But a traditional Discone does not fall into this category.
prcguy

I thought grounding the antenna itself is supposed to improve reception and reduce interference? I'm confused. Please explain.

Also I forgot to mention I have a pair of TV antennas (Channel Master CM4228HD and Radio Shack U75R, both of which have their own pre-amp) on the same solid metal (unknown material) rod chimney mount . How do I ground them? Can the whole mounting pipe just have one grounding wire?
 

DisasterGuy

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The mast itself should be grounded. The shield of each piece of coax should be bonded (at a minimum at the base of the mast and prior to wntering the structure) and polyphasers should be added. You should not simply drive a new ground rod, you need single potential grounding with the remainder of the structure (single point ground).
 

GeneseeCoMI

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The mast itself should be grounded. The shield of each piece of coax should be bonded (at a minimum at the base of the mast and prior to wntering the structure) and polyphasers should be added. You should not simply drive a new ground rod, you need single potential grounding with the remainder of the structure (single point ground).

I don't have any ground rods right now. I didn't think I needed them since my VHF/UHF/TV RX is already pretty good. I want to get rid of the RF noise on my new SWR (my first one) that I got a few weeks ago. Plus the whole lightning protection thing, of course.
 

GeneseeCoMI

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Consider a Discone autonomous when operated within its rated frequency range. It works the same hanging in free space or mounted to a metal mast or whatever.

If you were to use it for HF reception where it becomes an E field probe, then the coax and mast and other things can affect its performance some, but you wouldn't usually buy a scanner Discone for HF reception anyway.

If you have some RFI induced on your coax from inside the building and it travels up the coax and radiates into the antenna, then placing the coax inside a mast and or grounding the mast may or may not have an effect on the RFI.

Some antennas are influenced by mounting to a mast and/or mast grounding and these are either antennas designed to have an additional counterpoise or ground, or some of the CB antennas out there which are not decoupled very well and the mast and coax and your mic cord become part of the antenna system because the antenna mfr is not very good at designing antennas. But a traditional Discone does not fall into this category.
prcguy

Well I bought it for scanner RX a few years back but I've been using it for SWL for a few weeks and it works pretty good, but there's still lots of RF noise on certain frequency ranges so I can't hear a lot of weak signals over it, and I'm thinking grounding it would help.
 

DisasterGuy

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You may need to investigate but every structure requires an AC safety ground that also is frequently the neutral return. All of your grounds must be bonded together.
 

prcguy

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Ground it and let us know if there is any improvement but I suspect it will work exactly the same. I would recommend researching the NEC, article 810 for grounding of consumer antennas.
prcguy

Well I bought it for scanner RX a few years back but I've been using it for SWL for a few weeks and it works pretty good, but there's still lots of RF noise on certain frequency ranges so I can't hear a lot of weak signals over it, and I'm thinking grounding it would help.
 

GeneseeCoMI

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Ground it and let us know if there is any improvement but I suspect it will work exactly the same. I would recommend researching the NEC, article 810 for grounding of consumer antennas.
prcguy

Well no offense but I hope you're wrong.

I found what you're talking about. I'll show them a copy of this too if they aren't familiar with it. Thanks for the tip.

NEC Section 810
 

DisasterGuy

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The issue of site grounding and bonding, while not all that complicated, can be a bit complex to understand at first. If you really want to understand the issue there are several documents to study and understand.

NFPA 80 - National Electrical Code

Motorola Standards & Grounding for Communications Sites http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/site-stuff/are-fifty-six-man-2005.pdf

Harris Site Grounding & Lightning Protection http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/t4618r3a.pdf

BICSI Standard for Telecommunications Bonding and Grounding Planning and Installation Methods for Commercial Buildings https://www.bicsi.org/book_details.aspx?Book=BICSI-607-CM-2011-v5
 
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