I spoke with a Gwinnett PD officer yesterday at the Gwinnett Arena and he said PD is going digital tomorrow (Monday).
Bill
Bill
Gwinnett PD Goin' Digital
- Thread starter jcherepy
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jdebona
Member
Any word on whether they will be encrypted tomorrow or if they are going to simulcast on analog?
b7spectra
EMS Dispatcher
OK, it's tomorrow. The word is????
N8IAA
Member
Still on the analog system. Been listening to them all day.
Larry
Larry
K
Kcomm
Guest
I'd bet they have cross patches on the consoles to simulcast both at the same time. If you look at any of the tower sites, you'll see that they added 800 meg antennas just below the original ones to bring up the p25 system while keeping the smartnetII on the air. My buddy works on the GCBOE LTR system which is at the Discover Mills tower site and they moved the old BOE VHF antennas down to make room.
N8IAA
Member
Coming home from work near the Mall of GA. Had the scanner in the car, heard comms on Ch 3 Northside due to the gas main break.
Larry
Only hearing Suwanee and Duluth on the old analog system. No GCPD.
((Larry
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K
Kcomm
Guest
Does anyone know if they ever added a site over by Peachtree Corners? That was always a poor coverage area, the Jimmy Carter/I-85 site didn't cover it well. Adding a site was discussed way back when I worked at that Moto shop when we were building out the orig. Smartnet II.
Here Is The Scoop
The recent switchover to a digitally encrypted emergency dispatch system in Gwinnett County has drawn a veil of secrecy around police communications even as it has made transmissions clearer and more secure.
The $35 million Motorola P25 digital 911 system was paid for by SPLOST, the voter-approved 1 percent sales tax.
Static and interference typical on the old analog system have been virtually eliminated since the switchover happened Monday, said Angie Conley, the Gwinnett 911 center’s communications manager.
“It’s a whole lot quieter,” Conley said. “It’s like officers are sitting in the room with you.”
Problems with some dead zones also have disappeared, Conley said. Previously, the areas near the Chattahoochee River in Peachtree Corners and behind Lanier Mountain in Centerville were notorious for bad or dropped transmissions.
The department opted to encrypt the system as an added safety feature for officers, said Gwinnett police spokeswoman Cpl. Illana Spellman.
“Clearly we don’t want to give away our advantage to someone who is going to break the law,” Spellman said. “The safety of officers is paramount.”
Yet the encryption doesn’t sit well with some police- scanner hobbyists.
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2008/11/21/scanner.html
The recent switchover to a digitally encrypted emergency dispatch system in Gwinnett County has drawn a veil of secrecy around police communications even as it has made transmissions clearer and more secure.
The $35 million Motorola P25 digital 911 system was paid for by SPLOST, the voter-approved 1 percent sales tax.
Static and interference typical on the old analog system have been virtually eliminated since the switchover happened Monday, said Angie Conley, the Gwinnett 911 center’s communications manager.
“It’s a whole lot quieter,” Conley said. “It’s like officers are sitting in the room with you.”
Problems with some dead zones also have disappeared, Conley said. Previously, the areas near the Chattahoochee River in Peachtree Corners and behind Lanier Mountain in Centerville were notorious for bad or dropped transmissions.
The department opted to encrypt the system as an added safety feature for officers, said Gwinnett police spokeswoman Cpl. Illana Spellman.
“Clearly we don’t want to give away our advantage to someone who is going to break the law,” Spellman said. “The safety of officers is paramount.”
Yet the encryption doesn’t sit well with some police- scanner hobbyists.
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2008/11/21/scanner.html
gatorhater
Member
I guess Gwinnett County Police has decided that anyone who has a scanner is a threat to them. I mean, seriously. Apparently GCPD doesn't want help from the local residents who monitor their communications. How many times have GCPD received help from a listener who heard a BOLO or an ATL, which lead to the finding of what they were looking for? I have worked in law enforcement in south Florida in a large and busy county SO, and it did help having residents who kept their ears open and paid attention to what they were doing, or who they were searching for. It helped in the search for suspected hit and run vehicles, the spotting of stolen vehicles, or even missing or lost kids. GCPD seems to think that they don't need any help from the citizens in their jurisdiction. I'm all for using encryption in activity that is truly sensitive, but not on their general radio traffic.
ButchGone
Member
Bummer..
As a member of the media in Tennessee I am surprised to read in the AJC article that Gwinnett will not allow media access to the police traffic. In many areas where comms have been encrypted the agencies allow media newsrooms to purchase one Moto radio that allows at least the monitoring of dispatch channels. Sure, it's a $4,000 cost but at least someone can keep tabs on what's up. I find it ridiculous to read the Gwinnett PR person say if anyone wants information they can inquire. How the hell will anyone know what to inquire about if they don't know what to ask in the first place? This opens the door for abuse and cover ups when cops do bad things to people.
At least it's comforting to see my old home, DeKalb County, keeping things in the clear.
Anybody know what Atlanta will do when they fire up the P-25 soon?
BG..
As a member of the media in Tennessee I am surprised to read in the AJC article that Gwinnett will not allow media access to the police traffic. In many areas where comms have been encrypted the agencies allow media newsrooms to purchase one Moto radio that allows at least the monitoring of dispatch channels. Sure, it's a $4,000 cost but at least someone can keep tabs on what's up. I find it ridiculous to read the Gwinnett PR person say if anyone wants information they can inquire. How the hell will anyone know what to inquire about if they don't know what to ask in the first place? This opens the door for abuse and cover ups when cops do bad things to people.
At least it's comforting to see my old home, DeKalb County, keeping things in the clear.
Anybody know what Atlanta will do when they fire up the P-25 soon?
BG..
Yeah. As the population of Gwinnett is and still rising, you have a maniac in your area, no telling who's house he'll jump in to because law enforcement wants to save their own ass. Why do you think you're putting your lives on the line? Thats what yall agreed to.
N8IAA
Member
First, the citizens didn't agree to this. The county commissioners and public safety officials did. I have had many conversations with PD and SO officers and understand the need for certain comms to be encrypted, others, not. The FD now encrypts patient info on the EMS to hospital TG's because of the HIPA laws. Again, not a problem. When I am listening to the FD being dispatched while out and about in the county, I like knowing when to look for them and give a wide berth to them. Their biggest concern is the media feeding frenzy when there is a large fire being fought. Like most citizens, my scanner is for info and keeping out of the way of LEO's, and FD runs. But, when the PD is cruising my subdivision looking for a perp, I want to know who, what, where, and when. Thank goodness that FD isn't encrypted, and that I can still listen to other counties that didn't go encrypted.
Larry
N8IAA
Member
I'm going to go out on a limb with this presumption: TGID 11019 is being patched to TGID 11017. Knowing that Ch 4 East in the past been patched to Ch 3 North. That 11017 is the new North dispatch and 11019 is the new East dispatch. Just my thoughts.
Larry
Larry
b7spectra
EMS Dispatcher
Most of the times, the TRUE meaning of the SPLOST is hidden deep inside of the true meaning. I'm quite sure that if the general population is made well aware of the cost of not only the P25, but the encryption modules, they would most likely NOT vote for it. Look at DeKalb County. They have a $40 million short fall and their P25 system cost is probably well over 1/2 of that. I guess you eliminate jobs and county services so you can have your state of the art system. As many people of the media that are out there, I still haven't seen very much talk about it on the news. Wonder why?
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They're sure hootin and hollerin about the Atlanta 911 center woes... nationwide search for a new director, etc... :roll:
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
decisions aren't made in a vacuum...
N8IAA, you are partially right- but remember these decisions made by our governments are not made in a vacuum. Gwinnett's decisions was clearly made by Motorola salesman and the longtime desire by some upper echelon to hide their daily operations. Now that P25 CAI has been forced down all of our throats under this "interoperability" guise, it's time to shoot holes in the assertion that "officer safety" is enhanced by creating these closed walled gardens of propietary trunking systems. I made that argument (along with others) at a 2005 meeting with Cobb county officials at a public hearing. While I don't think the decision to replace a functioning system with another overpriced version of the same was a sound decision, the message was clear that full time encryption was NOT a good idea, added a tremendous cost, and hinders interagency interoperability, as not all radios are encryption capable, and those that are don't always have the same format. Then the issue of key management comes into play, this adds administrative overhead and additional cost.
Officer safety is further compromised when mutual aid responders cannot communicate because systems are closed. Full time encryption of all talkgroups is foolhardy and wasteful, and serves no purpose other than to lock out citizens who often serve as extra eyes and ears in the community. It also blocks the media from having access to the day to day operations, and this further serves to build a wall of distrust among the citizens, media and the agencies that serve them. I have no problem with using encryption on sensitive talkgroups such as CID, SID, SWAT or administrative talkgroups, as this protects sensitive information, protects the innocent, and enables the guilty to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law by preserving the chain of evidence. However, the routine dispatch of "getting the cat out of a tree" or auto accident is no security threat.
As members of the radio community, it is our duty to educate our officials the unbiased facts. The Motorola salesman isn't going to do this, and while they may still press forward with their decision, when we go on record we hold them accountable. When these poor decisions are made, they cannot escape the consequences when they have been advised otherwise.
Making intelligent arguments against it, offering facts rather than opinion, and offering alternatives are sound are the key to stopping this trend. Merely sending an email to an official stating "I want to listen...it's my right bla bla bla..." are ways to ensure you will fall on deaf ears. Present facts and make a good case. Let them know we are on the side of our public safety officials.
Of course doing nothing ensures that nothing will change...
N8IAA, you are partially right- but remember these decisions made by our governments are not made in a vacuum. Gwinnett's decisions was clearly made by Motorola salesman and the longtime desire by some upper echelon to hide their daily operations. Now that P25 CAI has been forced down all of our throats under this "interoperability" guise, it's time to shoot holes in the assertion that "officer safety" is enhanced by creating these closed walled gardens of propietary trunking systems. I made that argument (along with others) at a 2005 meeting with Cobb county officials at a public hearing. While I don't think the decision to replace a functioning system with another overpriced version of the same was a sound decision, the message was clear that full time encryption was NOT a good idea, added a tremendous cost, and hinders interagency interoperability, as not all radios are encryption capable, and those that are don't always have the same format. Then the issue of key management comes into play, this adds administrative overhead and additional cost.
Officer safety is further compromised when mutual aid responders cannot communicate because systems are closed. Full time encryption of all talkgroups is foolhardy and wasteful, and serves no purpose other than to lock out citizens who often serve as extra eyes and ears in the community. It also blocks the media from having access to the day to day operations, and this further serves to build a wall of distrust among the citizens, media and the agencies that serve them. I have no problem with using encryption on sensitive talkgroups such as CID, SID, SWAT or administrative talkgroups, as this protects sensitive information, protects the innocent, and enables the guilty to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law by preserving the chain of evidence. However, the routine dispatch of "getting the cat out of a tree" or auto accident is no security threat.
As members of the radio community, it is our duty to educate our officials the unbiased facts. The Motorola salesman isn't going to do this, and while they may still press forward with their decision, when we go on record we hold them accountable. When these poor decisions are made, they cannot escape the consequences when they have been advised otherwise.
Making intelligent arguments against it, offering facts rather than opinion, and offering alternatives are sound are the key to stopping this trend. Merely sending an email to an official stating "I want to listen...it's my right bla bla bla..." are ways to ensure you will fall on deaf ears. Present facts and make a good case. Let them know we are on the side of our public safety officials.
Of course doing nothing ensures that nothing will change...
K
Kcomm
Guest
"Gwinnett's decisions was clearly made by Motorola salesman"
Probably my ex-stepfather's brother. AKA jerk.
Probably my ex-stepfather's brother. AKA jerk.
b7spectra
EMS Dispatcher
Money talks and the BS walks! Guarantee you the salesman who sold GC their system WITH encryption made a good bonus this year!
ButchGone
Member
Ok...
Is the Gwinnett P25 system part of what's being called GEWIN? Or is GEWIN just Cobb County? I ask because Atlanta and DeKalb are supposed to migrate to P25. And as I understand the whole point of spending tens of millions of dollars is so that people can talk to one another.
Same for Forsyth County...is this part of GEWIN?
So, if a Cobb County officer is in hot pursuit of a person who just shot five people, goes through Atlanta, then north on I-85 into Gwinnett then into Forsyth or Hall, will their radio work seamlessly? Or is the officer SOL?
I would think the P25 systems being built are all linked together somehow. Or is that another 50-million?
Please tell me GEWIN is not just Cobb County!
BG..
Is the Gwinnett P25 system part of what's being called GEWIN? Or is GEWIN just Cobb County? I ask because Atlanta and DeKalb are supposed to migrate to P25. And as I understand the whole point of spending tens of millions of dollars is so that people can talk to one another.
Same for Forsyth County...is this part of GEWIN?
So, if a Cobb County officer is in hot pursuit of a person who just shot five people, goes through Atlanta, then north on I-85 into Gwinnett then into Forsyth or Hall, will their radio work seamlessly? Or is the officer SOL?
I would think the P25 systems being built are all linked together somehow. Or is that another 50-million?
Please tell me GEWIN is not just Cobb County!
BG..
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