Ham Radio Is It Worth It?

[Dwitherspoon]

I stand by all my statements. What you are doing is not "working". The so called ground plane you think you are attaching to a CB antenna is not doing much of anything and your coax from the antenna to the radio is the major counterpoise for the antenna. RF currents are flowing all over the outside of your coax but the pie tin is way too small for any amount of current to flow and cancel radiation. Instead you have a goofy offset dipole consisting of the exposed antenna as the hot side and your random length of coax as the other side of the dipole. Your coax is probably radiating as much as the whip and a proper size ground plane will not radiate.

It works just fine on CB. It doesn’t work on ham. In my experience as watts increase, the ground plane needs to as well. In CB extra watts, even with an amp are less demanding than 10 meter. My 94hp is pushing 200 watts on ssb at 25 amps. It’s killing my ground. I added a 15 ft RG 58 instead of my 1 FT jumper and the problem resolved on my 18” disc. My ground isn’t large enough. Kids, if you want to defeat high SWR in a pinch, add cable length to bleed off power.

 

[enine]

CB has come in handy a couple times for me while mobile.
I was also able to stop and help a truck driver who had broken down and needed a cell phone charge to call his company

 

[522]

Oh man... I'm gonna have to get some more popcorn for this

 

[522]

@Dwitherspoon: no doubt, you should write a book

 

[AJAT]

I put a hat on my head made of tin foil, put a mag mount antenna on top of my head. I hook my CB up to a 1.21 gigawatt amplifier. It is the most efficient antenna I ever used on CB. When I hooked it up to my ham radio I just radiated myself. CB definitely transmits differently than ham radio.

 

[522]

Book title; Antenna Theory and why potato chips bags make the best antennas.

 

[Floridarailfanning]

200 watts going into a mag-mount stuck on a cookie sheet, inside the house. You've got a lot of other issues besides finding a big enough ground plane.

 

[jonwienke]

It works just fine on CB. It doesn’t work on ham. In my experience as watts increase, the ground plane needs to as well. In CB extra watts, even with an amp are less demanding than 10 meter. My 94hp is pushing 200 watts on ssb at 25 amps. It’s killing my ground. I added a 15 ft RG 58 instead of my 1 FT jumper and the problem resolved on my 18” disc. My ground isn’t large enough. Kids, if you want to defeat high SWR in a pinch, add cable length to bleed off power.

No. You've just proved both @prcguy's point and your own ignorance. Power has nothing to do with an antenna's match, or lack thereof, unless you're running enough to melt something. Adding the extra cable created a counterpoise, but unlike a ground plane, it's not creating a symmetrical radiation pattern aimed mostly at the horizon. Instead, you're getting a smorgasbord of weird asymmetric radiation lobes at random angles both horizontally and vertically. If your contact just happens to be in one of the lobes, the setup may seem to work well, but if they move a few degrees, you signal may disappear entirely. It's very difficult to predict the actual radiation pattern of such a borked antenna, and the RF currents in the coax shield (and anything connected to it, like the chassis of your radio) can become an RF burn hazard when you're running high power.

 

[Dwitherspoon]

200 watts going into a mag-mount stuck on a cookie sheet, inside the house. You've got a lot of other issues besides finding a big enough ground plane.

Correct. I hear my voice from my tv speakers. I’m not even sure I should continue at this point as I live in an apartment building. Every time I key on 10 meter “not transmitting” shuts my wireless router down and shuts my tv off. I’m looking into it, but I don’t think it’s going to be workable.

Great comment.

 

[Dwitherspoon]

No. You've just proved both @prcguy's point and your own ignorance. Power has nothing to do with an antenna's match, or lack thereof, unless you're running enough to melt something. Adding the extra cable created a counterpoise, but unlike a ground plane, it's not creating a symmetrical radiation pattern aimed mostly at the horizon. Instead, you're getting a smorgasbord of weird asymmetric radiation lobes at random angles both horizontally and vertically. If your contact just happens to be in one of the lobes, the setup may seem to work well, but if they move a few degrees, you signal may disappear entirely. It's very difficult to predict the actual radiation pattern of such a borked antenna, and the RF currents in the coax shield (and anything connected to it, like the chassis of your radio) can become an RF burn hazard when you're running high power.

No. Adding cable length bleeds off power and compensates for a lake of ground. It always lowers SWR in poor ground and high power situations. That’s basic 101.

 

[Floridarailfanning]

You need to stop for the sake of your neighbors health. I'm no RF exposure expert but you're certainly exceeding safe SAR levels.

 

[522]

That’s basic 101.

You've heard it here folks. Now we know.

 

[AJAT]

Correct. I hear my voice from my tv speakers. I’m not even sure I should continue at this point as I live in an apartment building. Every time I key on 10 meter “not transmitting” shuts my wireless router down and shuts my tv off. I’m looking into it, but I don’t think it’s going to be workable.

Great comment.

All serious when I first got my amateur license I was trying to transmit on 10 meters inside an apartment. I found out the hard way not a good idea. I set off the fire alarm system and had everyone evacuate the building. Also fried my ooma phone system. Decided to get the ARRL antenna book and learn the theory behind antennas. Also got some good RF burns. Learning theory is a good idea for a minimum safety reasons. I lot of good info on these forums and some good fun.

 

[Dwitherspoon]

You need to stop for the sake of your neighbors health. I'm no RF exposure expert but you're certainly exceeding safe SAR levels.

Health might be a bit of a stretch, but I’m not going to disrupt others lives by keying on. I know what it’s doing to my equipment, but I can’t risk others. I was researching means of containment, but what I got was place the antenna outside.


Haha. And to think the REASON I bought that higher power version is to have a built in amp. Now it’s working against me.

I’m still going to take my test, but I’m going to have to find a lower power radio, which galaxy makes.

 

[jonwienke]

No. Adding cable length bleeds off power and compensates for a lake of ground. It always lowers SWR in poor ground and high power situations. That’s basic 101.

Again, you're displaying your ignorance. Additional coax does NOT lower actual SWR, nor does it improve the antenna match in any way. The additional loss decreases the accuracy of a SWR reading taken at the transmitter, because less of the energy reflected back from a crappy antenna makes it to the meter. But if you put the meter on the antenna end of the coax, you'll get the true, higher SWR reading, that isn't skewed by coax losses. And you'll find that the actual match doesn't magically improve simply by adding additional coax. You'll also find that SWR doesn't care about the power level, either. An antenna with a 2:1 SWR at 1 watt will still have a 2:1 SWR at 10, 100, and 1000 watts.

 

[Dwitherspoon]

All serious when I first got my amateur license I was trying to transmit on 10 meters inside an apartment. I found out the hard way not a good idea. I set off the fire alarm system and had everyone evacuate the building. Also fried my ooma phone system. Decided to get the ARRL antenna book and learn the theory behind antennas. Also got some good RF burns. Learning theory is a good idea for a minimum safety reasons. I lot of good info on these forums and some good fun.

It shuts of my tv and WiFi! Crazy! I gotta figure that’s affecting others on my floor! CB didn’t do that. Granted it was a cute 2 mosfett amp in the rm itality and not a 4 via the ham.

Good god though!

 

[prcguy]

Adding coax adds loss so your 200 watts is something less than 200 watts at the antenna. Did you know that coax loss specs are only under matched conditions with a perfect 1:1 match and anything other than that perfect match, the advertised loss can go through the roof? Add enough coax with a questionable match and you basically have a dummy load with a little antenna bit of antenna attached.

Not counting your inside apartment problem, do it right with an adequate size ground plane and decouple the coax from the antenna and you can run unlimited power to the point it hurts you or you damage your telephone or stereo. But when done right the antenna acts the same at 1 watt or 1,000 watts or whatever.

At this point I'm thinking the OP is baiting us with stupid BS on purpose just to get a frenzy going. That's the only thing that makes sense here.

So Mr. spoon, you never answered my question about having any outside space for a real base antenna.

No. Adding cable length bleeds off power and compensates for a lake of ground. It always lowers SWR in poor ground and high power situations. That’s basic 101.

 

[Floridarailfanning]

Health might be a bit of a stretch. . .

No, it definitely isn't. You are lucky not to have burned yourself yet.

 

[jonwienke]

Health might be a bit of a stretch, but I’m not going to disrupt others lives by keying on. I know what it’s doing to my equipment, but I can’t risk others. I was researching means of containment, but what I got was place the antenna outside.

That is the ONLY solution. Putting the antenna outside means the RF energy can actually radiate away from your location and do something useful. Containing the signal is the absolute opposite of what you're trying to do, and means you're dutch-ovening yourself and everything in your apartment in a soup of RF that isn't good for anyone or anything.

 

[Dwitherspoon]

Adding coax adds loss so your 200 watts is something less than 200 watts at the antenna. Did you know that coax loss specs are only under matched conditions with a perfect 1:1 match and anything other than that perfect match, the advertised loss can go through the roof? Add enough coax with a questionable match and you basically have a dummy load with a little antenna bit of antenna attached.

Not counting your inside apartment problem, do it right with an adequate size ground plane and decouple the coax from the antenna and you can run unlimited power to the point it hurts you or you damage your telephone or stereo. But when done right the antenna acts the same at 1 watt or 1,000 watts or whatever.

At this point I'm thinking the OP is baiting us with stupid BS on purpose just to get a frenzy going. That's the only thing that makes sense here.

So Mr. spoon, you never answered my question about having any outside space for a real base antenna.

I’m not putting anyone on! All I’ve said is be a little more open and understanding while also saying hey, I’ve never done that and being inquisitive about something that might and does work.

To everything else. My ham cutting through every signal in my apartment like butter. I’ve packed it up for now. I’ll look into a mount for my balcony, but at this point I don’t imagine a move of 7 feet will result in no interference. 25 amps is ALOT. My CB and KL 203 P only put put 11 AMPS total.

Once again Ham is a vastly different beast.