Hamstick On Boat. Can It Be Done?

[KI4VBR]

I tried mounting the Hamstick on the side of my fly-bridge which has a grab-rail. I used a trucker window mount to grab onto the rail (rail is not bonded/grounded to anything). I then took 17' of wire, had one end tied to the antenna mount, the other sloping down the side of the boat into salt water. I could not get even a 5:1 on 20 or 40.

So, I have this large hardtop on top of the fly-bridge. My radar, Nav. Light & VSAT dome... all in the rear part of the hardtop. I have a lot of room in the middle and front of the top to possibly put down a sheet of galvanized sheet-metal to use as a ground and screw the sheet into the top.

I do not want to purchase the extra-large 23' Shakespeare Marine HF antenna and auto-tuner as it is an expensive solution. When you're a boat owner, you are always looking out for some way to save money on a new purchase. Also, I do not want to make a wire antenna, so that is off the table for me. I already own most everything I need with the exception of the metal plate.

I welcome any suggestions.

Picture of "Lattitude Adjustment 3"

 

[mmckenna]

What kind of structure is holding up that top. Like, what is under the fiberglass? Is it possible there was metal/wiring inside there that was detuning the antenna? Did you try moving it somewhere else along that rail?

Checked the coax?
Checked that the mount was installed in the bracket correctly (not shorting the stud to ground)?

 

[prcguy]

An HF whip will need a lot of ground plane or counterpoise and the grab rail is way too small for that. Height is not all that important on a boat unless its all metal and the hull or bridge gets in the way. A ground plane can be wire or conducive tape. I would consider mounting the antenna at the rear of the boat about where the palm tree in the picture is sticking up before the stern tapers down to the water on the port side. Then run some wires of different lengths inside the hull walls towards the bow and also to your ground plate probably off the stern somewhere. Maybe more wires inside the hull walls across the bow then up the starboard side to the bow.

If you can supplement the original grab rail with lots of wire running in the walls and around the bridge it might tune up and work ok. The antenna wants to be very close to the ground plane and not elevated, so whatever you do don't run a long vertical ground wire down to grab the ground plane, bring the antenna to it or the ground plane up to the antenna.

 

[KI4VBR]

What kind of structure is holding up that top. Like, what is under the fiberglass? Is it possible there was metal/wiring inside there that was detuning the antenna? Did you try moving it somewhere else along that rail?

Checked the coax?
Checked that the mount was installed in the bracket correctly (not shorting the stud to ground)?

That is a great question. I don't think there is much metal behind the fiberglass, but it's possible there was enough to change it's characteristics. Thanks for the quick reply.

 

[KI4VBR]

An HF whip will need a lot of ground plane or counterpoise and the grab rail is way too small for that. Height is not all that important on a boat unless its all metal and the hull or bridge gets in the way. A ground plane can be wire or conducive tape. I would consider mounting the antenna at the rear of the boat about where the palm tree in the picture is sticking up before the stern tapers down to the water on the port side. Then run some wires of different lengths inside the hull walls towards the bow and also to your ground plate probably off the stern somewhere. Maybe more wires inside the hull walls across the bow then up the starboard side to the bow.

If you can supplement the original grab rail with lots of wire running in the walls and around the bridge it might tune up and work ok. The antenna wants to be very close to the ground plane and not elevated, so whatever you do don't run a long vertical ground wire down to grab the ground plane, bring the antenna to it or the ground plane up to the antenna.

Thank you for sharing the info. If I mounted the antenna in the stern of the boat, it would have to be easily removed when not in use. My wife enjoys the boat and is particular on how things look. I kind of like that idea as I had some concerns of RF getting into my radar array, sat dome, GPS antennas etc. if I mounted it on the top.

Thanks for your help.

 

[mmckenna]

I don't have a lot of experience with HF, but I can agree with what prcguy is saying. Many years ago I was on a ship and we had a hamstick mounted behind the flying bridge on a metal rail. But the whole ship was steel, so a good ground plane. Had pretty good performance and made a lot of contacts out of the Bering Sea.
But that was a long time ago.

 

[vagrant]

Perfect!


Joking aside, why not try two Hamsticks and enjoy a dipole?

 

[prcguy]

I've seen a number of marine installs that didn't go well at first so here is my advice. In my opinion you don't want the counterpoise or ground wires to radiate, that will cause all sorts of problems with the HF radio and other electronic equipment. When you have two or more equal length wire radials going opposite directions from the feed point it will try and cancel out radiation in those wire radials.

You also can't get full 1/4 wave 40m radials on that size boat, so map out what lengths you can use and do a temporary install and tape the ground radial wires along the path that you can eventually permanently run them in. Maybe you can get a pair of 20ft wires running up both the port and starboard side then a pair of shorter ones going another direction, etc. Then test for VSWR, hot coax and interaction with other marine electronics. If and when it plays nice, then consider a permanent install of the entire antenna system.

 

[vagrant]

@prcguy - Why not make a horizontal dipole using two same band Hamsticks? There are mounts out there to do that. A non-conductive mast along with a decent choke balun at the feed point et voilà. There will be some tuning needed using the antenna radials and the bandwidth will be narrow.

I have zero experience using a dipole on a boat/ocean, so I could be missing something quite obvious.

 

[KI4VBR]

@Pcrguy. Thanks for your input.
It might be worth trying two hamsticks together in a dipole configuration. I would just need to figure out what kind of mount to put on top of the flybridge hardtop. @Pcrguy

:I was trying to stay away from wire running around my boat. We do use this boat a lot for various occasions and some charters.

** Now here is an interesting question. I already have single hamsticks for 20 and 40 m. They are a little old and I don't think there is a brand name on them. So if I were to buy another ham stick, I wonder if there would be issues with two different hamsticks from two different companies. **

Thanks,
Vince

 

[prcguy]

@Pcrguy. Thanks for your input.
It might be worth trying two hamsticks together in a dipole configuration. I would just need to figure out what kind of mount to put on top of the flybridge hardtop. @Pcrguy

:I was trying to stay away from wire running around my boat. We do use this boat a lot for various occasions and some charters.

** Now here is an interesting question. I already have single hamsticks for 20 and 40 m. They are a little old and I don't think there is a brand name on them. So if I were to buy another ham stick, I wonder if there would be issues with two different hamsticks from two different companies. **

Thanks,
Vince

Hamstick dipoles for 20m and up can work ok but 40m they are very narrow band and low performing. On the wire ground radials, you would run them inside the walls of the hull or below deck where they are hidden. Tape them to the outside for testing but tuck them away for the permanent install.

 

[KI4VBR]

Hamstick dipoles for 20m and up can work ok but 40m they are very narrow band and low performing. On the wire ground radials, you would run them inside the walls of the hull or below deck where they are hidden. Tape them to the outside for testing but tuck them away for the permanent install.

That makes sense. Thanks!

 

[John_S]

Try attaching a wire to the ground part of the mirror mount and drop it into the water.

 

[KI4VBR]

Try attaching a wire to the ground part of the mirror mount and drop it into the water.

Hi John. I did exactly that. I thought that would give me a fantastic ground, but I was wrong. Not really sure why it worked out that way, but that's the way it is. Thank you for the suggestion.

V

 

[alcahuete]

I think you're starting to see that sometimes, throwing money at the problem is the right answer. You don't want to run wires because of looks and the obvious mess, you want something that can be easily taken down because your wife is worried about looks.....not really sure what to tell you here.

HF antennas are generally large. If you want something permanent, spend the money and do it right. I've run the 23's on a Nordhavn for years, and work DX like nobody's business. Did Field Day a couple years as /MM. But the HF is also there for actual maritime use in open water, so I don't play around with a garbage setup.

If you just want to play ham here and there while you're out to sea, and don't want to displease the wife, you could try something like a mag loop, or other portable antenna. I used an Alpha FMJ for years (there are similar other brands), and while it's a compromise antenna, obviously, I've worked all around the world on that too. Socal to Africa during the low of the sunspot cycle ain't bad for a severely compromised antenna. It can use a tripod or clamp that would go on your rail, for example, and would probably work fine. I've never tried it on the boat, only way back in the day at home when a couple of my beams were under repair.

 

[bill4long]

I tried mounting the Hamstick on the side of my fly-bridge which has a grab-rail. I used a trucker window mount to grab onto the rail (rail is not bonded/grounded to anything). I then took 17' of wire, had one end tied to the antenna mount, the other sloping down the side of the boat into salt water. I could not get even a 5:1 on 20 or 40.

So, I have this large hardtop on top of the fly-bridge. My radar, Nav. Light & VSAT dome... all in the rear part of the hardtop. I have a lot of room in the middle and front of the top to possibly put down a sheet of galvanized sheet-metal to use as a ground and screw the sheet into the top.

I do not want to purchase the extra-large 23' Shakespeare Marine HF antenna and auto-tuner as it is an expensive solution. When you're a boat owner, you are always looking out for some way to save money on a new purchase. Also, I do not want to make a wire antenna, so that is off the table for me. I already own most everything I need with the exception of the metal plate.

I welcome any suggestions.

Picture of "Lattitude Adjustment 3"
View attachment 168882
View attachment 168883

If you're in salt water, put a counterpoise, of 10 gauge wire or thicker, no insulation, a few feet down in the front of the boat.