Hand-held for Idiots question

[Hawkman]

I want to be respectful to the forum, so if this is in the wrong place, please redirect me.

I am a total beginner, 73 years old, pretty fit, and active
1. I just applied for a GMRS license. I have no clue how long that process takes.
2. Just started studying for my ham license. Hoping to get General, but we will see how that goes.
3. My primary purpose is staying and keeping my family prepared, but I also have an interest in radios as a hobby.
I have been trying to research the best. Handhelds to keep on hand, but the choices seem overwhelming. I figured it would be hard to go wrong with this deal, and it would give me something to play with until I learned enough to choose some better options. I ordered this two-pack of Baofeng UV-5R Two Way Radio Handheld Ham Radio Dual Band for $38. How can anyone sell a real radio at that price when I see handhelds for $160 a piece?
I just read in Amazon comments that these might be the 5w version and not the 8w version, which sells for about the same price. If so, I might swap them.

My impression is that they cover both GMRS and ham bands. If they are any good at all, it seems I should buy several of these just to have them.
Are these worth upgrading antennas etc, or should I just hold off and wait to put my money into better equipment?

Thanks for your input.

 

[MTS2000des]

The $38 Bowelturd uses a low cost system on chip design that uses what is essentially a child's toy walkie-talkie on chip to act like a radio. As far as use on GMRS, if it isn't FCC certified as a part 95 radio, it's not legal to use on part 95. Part 97 (ham) requires no such certification as the operator is responsible for ensuring all technical parameters are met for his/her equipment that comprises his/her station.

The Bowelturds are disposable radio with mediocre performance especially when it comes to things like front end overload, spurious emissions, scan performance, and transmit audio quality. They are renown for low and muffled transmit audio, receiver front ends wiped out by far out of band signals like wireless routers and LED lighting, and keypad programming is a hassle and not very intuitive.

This is where the rubber meets the road when it comes to portable radios costing much more.

 

[a417]

How can anyone sell a real radio at that price when I see handhelds for $160 a piece?
<snip>
Are these worth upgrading antennas etc, or should I just hold off and wait to put my money into better equipment?

Thanks for your input.

Very easily, other vendors sell real radios. These things are junk. As @MTS2000des stated prior, they do nothing well, they sound horrid...but they're cheap. Hammies can't get past cheap.

I would save your money for a second hand transciever if you don't have the budget for new, there is always a market for them.

 

[AB4BF]

I want to be respectful to the forum, so if this is in the wrong place, please redirect me.

I am a total beginner, 73 years old, pretty fit, and active
1. I just applied for a GMRS license. I have no clue how long that process takes.
2. Just started studying for my ham license. Hoping to get General, but we will see how that goes.
3. My primary purpose is staying and keeping my family prepared, but I also have an interest in radios as a hobby.
I have been trying to research the best. Handhelds to keep on hand, but the choices seem overwhelming. I figured it would be hard to go wrong with this deal, and it would give me something to play with until I learned enough to choose some better options. I ordered this two-pack of Baofeng UV-5R Two Way Radio Handheld Ham Radio Dual Band for $38. How can anyone sell a real radio at that price when I see handhelds for $160 a piece?
I just read in Amazon comments that these might be the 5w version and not the 8w version, which sells for about the same price. If so, I might swap them.

My impression is that they cover both GMRS and ham bands. If they are any good at all, it seems I should buy several of these just to have them.
Are these worth upgrading antennas etc, or should I just hold off and wait to put my money into better equipment?

Thanks for your input.

I wish you had posted here before purchasing any radios. We might not have saved you any money, but possibly put you on the correct path to purchasing a hand-held.
For a first handheld, I would recommend the AnyTone 878 in any of its iterations. It is a 2 meter/70 centimeter analog and DMR. The first models can be purchased for as little as $100 US. Plus, it is FCC approved. With a Technician license, it would be a great first radio.
The GMRS should be kept separate from Amateur and there are a myriad of GMRS radios on the market that will access repeaters.
Most of us here have our own preferences, but we will recommend a good radio.
73 and Good Luck!

 

[AK9R]

I want to be respectful to the forum, so if this is in the wrong place, please redirect me.

If your question is about amateur radio equipment, this is the right place. If your question is about GMRS equipment, the GMRS forum would be more appropriate.

I have been trying to research the best. Handhelds to keep on hand, but the choices seem overwhelming.

Radios are tools. Do you have more than one tool in your house or garage toolbox? Tools are designed for a particular purpose and the same goes with radios. Trying to find a radio that serves multiple purposes is like trying to find a tool that fits multiple sizes of bolt heads. You end up with a pair of slip-joint pliers that don't do a very good job turning the bolt and usually damage the bolt head in the process.

I ordered this two-pack of Baofeng UV-5R Two Way Radio Handheld Ham Radio Dual Band for $38.

I'm sorry to hear that. You bought the radio equivalent of a pair of cheap slip-joint pliers from Harbor Freight.

How can anyone sell a real radio at that price when I see handhelds for $160 a piece?

Because they are poorly made using low-quality components in factories staffed by low-income workers who may not be very skilled. They are designed using "radios on a chip" which don't have the filtering that more expensive radios have. As a result, they are often very susceptible to receiver overload in the presence of strong signals and they often produce spurious emissions outside their intended operating bands when transmitting.

I just read in Amazon comments that these might be the 5w version and not the 8w version, which sells for about the same price.

In my experience, the 8 watt Baofengs put out about 5 watts. And, the difference between 8 watts and 5 watts is not that great. You would need to double the power to make any real difference.

My impression is that they cover both GMRS and ham bands.

No. GMRS radios must be specifically certified by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) for use in GMRS. The radios you bought are suitable for amateur radio because the FCC does not impose certification requirements on amateur radio transmitters. They expect amateur radio operators to be technically savvy enough to follow the rules.

If they are any good at all, it seems I should buy several of these just to have them.

I sense some possible confusion about the rules. In amateur radio, each operator must have an amateur radio license. That means that if you and your spouse want to communicate using amateur radio, both of you would need to have an amateur radio license. In GMRS, everybody in your immediate family (which the FCC defines) can operate under your license. However, keep in mind that GMRS is very limited. You can only use about 22 channels in the UHF (70cm) band. With an amateur radio Technician license, you can use any frequency in the 6m, 2m, 1.25m, 70cm, 33cm, 23cm bands and on up to light waves plus small portions of the 10m, 15m, 40m, and 80m bands using specific modes. With an amateur radio General license, you can use almost any amateur radio frequency.

Are these worth upgrading antennas etc, or should I just hold off and wait to put my money into better equipment?

Frankly, I'd buy better equipment.

 

[Hawkman]

I really appreciate all the feedback. To AB4BF - don't feel bad that I did not ask before ordering these. I have the option of returning them. It will take no more than 12 minutes since I am close to an Amazon return center. I also have the option of throwing them in a cage and keeping them for an emergency, although that is suspect if they do not transmit GMRS. In any event, I know you usually get what you pay for, and I never intended these to be anything but something to satisfy my urge to tinker until I figure out what I really want.

To AK9R - You make a good point. I am clear on licensing and understand Ham is individually licensed where GMRS is family. I just made the mistake of thinking that these were duel band GMRS/Ham, which I think I got from some random YouTube channel. I might have misunderstood, or it could have been Youtube crap. That's why I came to the forum.

I am by no means wealthy, but money is not tight in the range of $100 - $200 for a unit. I would spend a thousand. I would maybe spend more if I spread my purchases out over a few months. I would like to end up with maybe a couple of Ham units (handheld - mobile - base??). I am unsure of the combination. I also would like a few GMRS handhelds for emergencies or to hand out to family when fishing, travel etc. I thought I could at least use the Baofeng UV-5R for that, but apparently not.

You have long from heard the last of me. I have a few high-priced units I have seen reviewed on YouTube that I would like an opinion on. Like any newbie, there is no limit to the questions I need answers to and questions I am too dumb even to ask. I do devour information, though, so hopefully, you will be patient with me.

 

[AK9R]

For a dual-band amateur radio handheld, I don't think you can go wrong with the Yaesu FT-60R. It's been on the market for several years, the bugs are all worked out, it's a rugged radio with some useful features. $150-160 at most amateur radio dealers.

A dual-band amateur radio mobile is going to cost you a little more. The Yaesu FTM-6000R is right at $300. But, it's what we call a "one band at a time" radio. The Icom IC-2730A is a "true dual band" radio that can receive both bands at the same time and is capable of receiving two 2m or two 70cm frequencies simultaneously. It's a bargain at $310, but it doesn't come with a mobile mounting bracket so add another $70 for that.

I just don't recommend any of the "cheap, Chinese radios". I've heard good things about the Anytone radios, but they seem to frequently release new models or new firmware for existing models which makes me wonder if their development process and beta testing is missing issues that they later have to fix.

Also, Amazon is not an amateur radio store. They know nothing about what they are selling. In some cases, the stuff you see on Amazon is imported by people who are just looking to make a buck without providing much customer service. Yes, Amazon does have easy return policies. When it comes to online amateur radio stores, look for Ham Radio Outlet, DX Engineering, Gigaparts (note that Gigaparts does occasionally list things on Amazon), R&L Electronics, and MTC Radio. Their businesses are based on selling amateur radio gear, not HDMI cables or shower loofahs.

 

[AC9XN]

WoW!
Really hammering the newbie. The Baofeng UV-5R is a fabulous radio to learn with. Its inexpensive and when you accidentally leave it wherever you left it your out $30 not $275 for the Anytone. What better way to learn about frequency shifts and CTCSS than learning a cheap throwaway radio? Actually a mag mount antenna mounted on the car roof or on a large appliance indoors gives the 4 Watt(?) UV-5R Baofeng quite an extended range.
Is it not better to learn and experiment first and purchase wisely later?
Are not these questions best for one's Elmer or perhaps a local fellow Amateur Licensee in a club or meeting?
Is it not our responsibility in the Amateur Radio Community to encourage newcomers and offer assistance every step of the way?

 

[AK9R]

Is it not our responsibility in the Amateur Radio Community to encourage newcomers and offer assistance every step of the way?

It's also our responsibility to encourage newcomers to follow the rules and understand the consequences of their decisions.

 

[KF0NYL]

WoW!
Really hammering the newbie. The Baofeng UV-5R is a fabulous radio to learn with. Its inexpensive and when you accidentally leave it wherever you left it your out $30 not $275 for the Anytone. What better way to learn about frequency shifts and CTCSS than learning a cheap throwaway radio? Actually a mag mount antenna mounted on the car roof or on a large appliance indoors gives the 4 Watt(?) UV-5R Baofeng quite an extended range.
Is it not better to learn and experiment first and purchase wisely later?
Are not these questions best for one's Elmer or perhaps a local fellow Amateur Licensee in a club or meeting?
Is it not our responsibility in the Amateur Radio Community to encourage newcomers and offer assistance every step of the way?

I agree 100% with you. The only thing I will suggest differently is on the HT itself. I will recommend the Baofeng GT-5R from Radiodiddy instead. The GT-5R doesn't have the spurious emissions like the UV-5R, sounds better, and the GT-5R is locked down to 2m and 70cm only. The GT-5R costs the same as the UV-5R at $26.99 on Amazon.

 

[wtp]

it would be a good starter radio...but, i tell anyone new to just listen, listen, listen.
it might not receive the best, but at least you can listen. i think i covered that.

 

[nd5y]

Actually a mag mount antenna mounted on the car roof or on a large appliance indoors gives the 4 Watt(?) UV-5R Baofeng quite an extended range.

Extending transmit range is useless if the external antenna also kills the receiver as it often does on Baofengs.

 

[ArkTex]

it would be a good starter radio...but, i tell anyone new to just listen, listen, listen.
it might not receive the best, but at least you can listen. i think i covered that.

The UV-5R is a good emergency radio, that's about it. My experience with them is that they get overloaded super easily. Even something as simple as a laptop charger or light switch being flicked would send the front end into a meltdown. I wouldn't recommend OP uses the UV-5R's to listen, but if it's the only option it's better than nothing.

However, a glance over at HRO's used items shows that they have a AT-868 handheld for $124 currently listed. That's a great price for a relatively well known DMR handheld, if DMR is an interest.

 

[wtp]

i just figure he has them, so use them.

 

[dlwtrunked]

The $38 Bowelturd uses a low cost system on chip design that uses what is essentially a child's toy walkie-talkie on chip to act like a radio. As far as use on GMRS, if it isn't FCC certified as a part 95 radio, it's not legal to use on part 95. Part 97 (ham) requires no such certification as the operator is responsible for ensuring all technical parameters are met for his/her equipment that comprises his/her station.

The Bowelturds are disposable radio with mediocre performance especially when it comes to things like front end overload, spurious emissions, scan performance, and transmit audio quality. They are renown for low and muffled transmit audio, receiver front ends wiped out by far out of band signals like wireless routers and LED lighting, and keypad programming is a hassle and not very intuitive.

This is where the rubber meets the road when it comes to portable radios costing much more.

Some of the Baufeng models are FCC Part 95 certified (as was pointed out to me and then verified to me in another forum). But of course FRS and GMRS have special requirements that are not met (like fixed channeling and permanent attached antenna). I own FT3D, FT400D, and a Kenwood HF and have done comparisons. A current model Baufeng can be a bargain for certain purposes and arguments here are like the ones from the past about Japaneses cars and are loosing their validity. Not perfect radios but I have never ever had any problem like the above and I have an FM broadcast station 0.8 miles away. Never ever had a problem with wireless router and LED lighting either and both are next to a Baufeng. As far as programming, use software for gosh sakes.

 

[dlwtrunked]

../.

Radio Handheld Ham Radio Dual Band for $38. How can anyone sell a real radio at that price when I see handhelds for $160 a piece?
I just read in Amazon comments that these might be the 5w version and not the 8w version, which sells for about the same price. If so, I might swap them.
...

You do not want to compare Chinese pricing with non-Chinese pricing. Their manufacturing operates in a totally different way. It is a very different economy with very different rule. Just one example: ignoring patents makes manufacturing cheaper. When I was working, I found out that even the U.S. government had difficulty understanding Chinese manufacturing. Trying to find out where/who exactly made a Chinese item can be near impossible for an outsider.

 

[KF0NYL]

I have a Baofeng GT-5R dual band along with two Baofeng UV-5R GMRS radios and I haven't had any issues with interference at home or in my car.

Yes we all know they are cheap radios but they do work and get a new person started until they figure out what they really want.

 

[Hawkman]

The UV-5Rs are boxed up with a return authorization for Amazon. It will take me only minutes to drop them off tomorrow. I had decided 2 days after I got them that they were going back, so this recent discussion was not a factor. When I ordered them, I thought they were the UV-5R 2nd generation with 8 watts. They were not. Next, I realized it was not a good emergency radio because it was ham, and it was not simplistic enough, or I would have kept them for emergencies. I have had a pair of Baofeng UV-9G GMRS for over a week that I am totally impressed with. They cost $86 for two. With the mag mount antenna, I talk 4-5 miles to the other HT (rubber antenna) simplex. If I go to the repeater, I can, of course, talk anywhere in the county. At $43 each, I honestly have no clue what another $100 a piece would have gotten me. They included an extra extended rubber antenna, belt clips, a lanyard, and a programming cable. They are fully submersible. Monitor two channels at once and have a ton of DIY receive only frequencies I can scan. They have Noaa alerts, FM broadcast, flashlight, I have been impressed with their performance. Most of my prior experience has only been with Motorola first responder gear. (I was a cop and worked for the DoJ)

I want a good GMRS mobile, and I have to figure out what kind of Ham equipment I want. Probably an HT and a 50-watt mobile. I was hoping that I could get something that would cover all Ham voice bands except HF, but apparently, that is nonexistent or uncommon. I connected with the GMRS repeater owner on air. He said he often buys second-hand commercial units that get GMRS and Ham in one radio. I would love that, but I have no idea what to look for.

 

[Hawkman]

However, a glance over at HRO's used items shows that they have a AT-868 handheld for $124 currently listed. That's a great price for a relatively well known DMR handheld, if DMR is an interest.

I assume that is "Ham Radio Outlet"? I sadly have little clue what DMR is or why someone would like it.

 

[mmckenna]

He said he often buys second-hand commercial units that get GMRS and Ham in one radio. I would love that, but I have no idea what to look for.

He's referring to the commercial UHF radios that are FCC type accepted to work on GMRS (Part 95). If you get the correct bandsplit, they can be used on the 70 centimeter amateur radio band.
I did that for years back in the early 2000's. Had the radio programmed for GMRS and a lot of the local 70cm repeaters.

Finding a radio like a Kenwood TK-8180 in the correct submodel, or one of the other professional radios will give you a solid mobile setup with loud audio and some nice features that you won't get on the hammy or Chinese gear. Many of us here do that and enjoy the benefits.
It does have some drawbacks, like no VFO. They also require (in most cases) a PC to program.