I was just thinking this morning how awesome it would be if some hardware and software developers would get together and maybe start a Kickstarter campaign for a handheld SDR radio scanner. I'm thinking of a radio that would have a physical size probably slightly larger than most current handhelds with a screen size of perhaps 2 inches wide by 3 inches high. The internals would be similar to an AirSpy attached to a small computer inside running perhaps Linux. The display could be divided into up to two or three sections which could be user-selectable for different kinds of displays like Data, Scope and Waterfall. There could be plug-ins or modules for programs like Unitrunker, DSD, SDR-Trunk, SDR#, etc and the Data version of the display would output corresponding data from each module, whichever is active. Such a device could then run on batteries, probably 6-8 AA rechargeables, and sport a handheld antenna with SMA or BNC connector. I would imagine that it would be mostly aimed at VHF/UHF, at least initially, with potential to go full-out HF in the future. Imagine how useful such a radio could be. If all of the software developers were to poole their resources together, each creating separate "plug-ins" for the device, you could even set it up with dynamic memory management to create systems, groups, and channels like modern scanners. It would be slightly limited to perhaps 10 MHz bandwidth due to the limitations of the SDR hardware, but just think about the potential. You would have a handheld SDR that could scan all of the DMR and Passport services, monitor and track/log all talkgroups and radio IDs of trunked systems, even record IQ and audio traffic to a microSD card or USB device. I know that this kind of an idea is probably years down the road, but just imagine how awesome it would be. Right now, even if enough people were to poole their resources together, due to the size of the hardware, it would more likely be a base/mobile profile. But how awesome it would be for a handheld SDR Scanner!
Handheld SDR Radio Scanner
- Thread starter Gilligan
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GrumpyGuard
Member
You could build one for your use, using a Raspberry Pi or similar computer, a set of earbuds, a couple of tuner sticks, battery holder and batteries for power and a small display. Get a project box and you would have yourself a SDR Scanner with the ability to have FM Radio too. Why put your idea on a forum when you could start your kickstarter project and profit from your idea.
I thought about this also. Would be awesome if it had a screen that would show the spectrum too.
I suggested something very much like that to the major players around 10 years ago.
I don't think they want to be in the hot seat for the type of codecs that would be installed on their products, though. There would also be the resulting patent infringement suits from those who own the codecs.
But, how about the next best thing... a phone app that connects to a home-based SDR. It would give all the same benefits without the power consumption of the local SDR.
I don't think they want to be in the hot seat for the type of codecs that would be installed on their products, though. There would also be the resulting patent infringement suits from those who own the codecs.
But, how about the next best thing... a phone app that connects to a home-based SDR. It would give all the same benefits without the power consumption of the local SDR.
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
Just build a device around the RPi (or your favorite micro board) with an RF header, Linux (or Windows 10 on the RPi 2) and existing software - SDR#, DSDPlus, etc.
Now if somebody comes up with a touchscreen interface for SDR...
Now if somebody comes up with a touchscreen interface for SDR...
Based on my tablet experience with SDR, I would have to wonder how 'handheld' it would have to be in order to be reliable. A 13(ish)" tablet was barely reliable. Could you imagine trying to select a frequency on a 10 MHz display on an iPhone sized display?
I would say skip the spectral display and waterfall and just use a basic display similar to the HP-x series (or even a smaller one).
I would say skip the spectral display and waterfall and just use a basic display similar to the HP-x series (or even a smaller one).
br0adband
Member
Disclaimer: long long winded mega-post ahead so be warned, I'm on a roll...
Until we get some talented creative developer to actually create a "scanner" application that basically uses the SDR in such a manner that the software interface you work with is literally like something you'd hold in your hand aka an actual physical scanner from Uniden/Whistler/etc then I don't see this ever happening, or at least not anytime soon until such a talented creative developer comes along and makes such a piece of software.
SDR is limited right now by that aspect: talent and creativity with respect to creating the software that puts the SDR hardware to use for whatever purpose. I personally am still very frustrated that there isn't a proper trunk tracking SDR application several years in now (meaning the whole "new" SDR generation that's come into existence because of the popularity of "cheap USB TV tuner" RTL sticks which really got things moving about 3-4 years ago).
And by that what I mean is I want and hope someday to have a single application, whether it's on a personal computer of some kind running Windows/OSX/Linux/whatever or a smartphone running Android/iOS/Windows Phone/etc that presents me with an interface that looks like a handheld or base/mobile scanner and can be used in exactly the same manner.
I'm not a developer or programmer at all, to any degree, but damned if I don't sometimes sit here staring at this screen wondering "Ok, why the hell hsan't someone done this yet? People are using SDR devices for all kinds of neat but basically (in my opinion) dead-end situations like decoding public transportation bus routes, or decoding the radio data sent from traffic lights, or something similarly innocuous - when is some talented creative developer going to realize there's some potential money to be made by creating what most people using RTL sticks and other SDR hardware are wanting: a way to truly make a software based "scanner" that works just like an actual physical one and not some wideband reception software that can store some frequencies in memories and then let you "scan" them till it hits on something."
Or words to that effect.
Here's something I've considered making, from a hardware perspective, and since I don't have this copyrighted or trademarked or whatever I know that by "outing myself" with this idea here at RR I can't stop someone from basically stealing this idea and running with it which is entirely possible. I'd lose out on potential revenue I suppose but I'm not a business person either sadly. Anyway, here's the idea I wanted to make a reality recently:
Some smartphones are just the right size, but that's a big personal thing for the majority of people. Some folks can't stand large ones so they prefer devices with displays that are 4.5" diagonal or less, while some people have a middle ground where something 4.5" to maybe 5 or 5.2" is much better. Then there's a few folks that love big huge devices with 5.5" or larger displays. Having said that, the "sweet spot" for me is about 4.6" to 5" display size. Because of that physical form factor, there's the potential that a popular smartphone will have some manufacturer out there making an external battery sleeve for that phone.
By that I don't mean some external "power pack" that just plugs into the charging port of said smartphone, I mean it's a battery mounted inside either a silicone-based material or something harder that allows you to insert the phone itself into and then it becomes a sleeve for the phone - here's a pic of what I mean and this one is designed for a popular smartphone from a few years back, the Motorola Moto X:
Now, this one has two benefits: first it provides a large 2800 mAh battery to charge the Moto X and keep it running for much longer, second it also adds a microSD slot for expanding the storage capability of the Moto X because it doesn't have that natively.
Here's the idea I had:
Because I/we know that sleeve has a battery inside what I had intended to do was actually get one (because I have a Moto X 1st gen) and then disassemble it, then remove the battery - I'd leave the microSD card reader in place - and after the battery is removed I'd have an opening inside the sleeve with some, well, empty space. And according to some info I found, the amount of space I'd find after removing the battery would be just enough to... <drumroll please>
Take the circuit board from an RTL stick and put it inside the casing, as well as drill a vertical hole down one side of the sleeve to accommodate a telescopic whip antenna...
See where this is going? Here's a crappy pic I sortakinda edited to give some idea of what I mean with regards to the sleeve. The blue outline is about where the battery compartment is or should be. The orange box on the right represents where the RTL board would be mounted inside the space vacated by the removal of the battery, while the left cylinder of sorts represents where the telescopic whip antenna would be mounted. As noted it might be possible to add an SMA connector there instead working off a pigtail from the RTL board but would require some way to make it really stiff. It's a concept-in-progress basically, but I think it's actually possible. Anyway, the concept pic cutaway:
What I'd be making with this design concept is - in this specific situation - an Android powered smartphone sleeve containing an RTL SDR receiver that is directly connected by way of OTG (On-The-Go) and has an internal antenna (more or less).
It would become an Android powered portable SDR using a traditional (meaning everything supports it) R820T2 (since it's the better version over the original R820T) that is directly interfaced with the USB port on the smartphone for the OTG without issues (and the Moto X does support OTG natively), powered by the phone's battery itself (so no, the extended battery aspect is now rendered moot), and it even has the internal telescopic whip antenna - I could even potentially add an SMA connector but the rigidity of the sleeve material might require some kind of reinforcement to keep it stiff and not snap off easily.
Suffice to say I've had this idea in the back of my head for about 8 months now and I keep thinking "You know, this would work, and it would be easy to accomplish, it could be a workable thing that people might be interested in..."
There's two problems, mainly, plus a third of sorts:
1) The Moto X is fairly old now so a lot of people might not like that aspect even though it's still a damned fine smartphone even now, seriously, and more than capable of being the processing power behind this kind of project.
2) As stated previously, I'm not a developer, or a programmer, and it's safe to say that on top of those issues for me personally it's also safe to say the state of Android-powered SDR applications currently is pretty much in the basement. SDR-Touch is probably the most popular tool out there but, it's so lackluster and expensive at about $10 for the "professional" version just unlocks the spectrum which is time limited to like 45 seconds in the demo and allows for RDS decoding and audio recording. While it does do those things, the developer hasn't added much of anything to the app overall that many people would want based on the reviews.
3) The fact of the matter is that this would be a really really niche product because it would require a specific model of smartphone and specific model of external sleeve for it. There are other smartphones and other sleeves, yes, but I chose the Moto X as the example since I happen to own one, it has a great form factor, fits well in the hand, and using that sleeve from Mugen for this project would make it a bulky thing obviously but for those of us that are used to having a handheld scanner or HT of some kind it's not really a big deal.
Besides, it would still be your traditional Android smartphone overall so, this idea really hits home on a lot of fronts in my opinion. I really wish I could make this a reality, I don't get great ideas all that often but this one I really think is pretty awesome (tooting my own horn here, stand back...).
In general, SDR on smartphones sucks, and I wish I could do something about that because I believe there is a seriously untapped market there that could be utilized to make some great things happen. I use Android as the example but these days - from what I understand - it's not that tough to port code from one platform to another since they're all using essentially the same types of hardware (ARM processor architecture, etc). But what do I know...
It's just an idea, I figured I'd share it since it seems to be similar to what this thread is about so, if you're a talented creative Android software developer that happens to be into SDR as much as most of us these days, perhaps you and I should talk, who knows.
I won't go so far as to slap a watermark or something with copyrights all over this but, suffice to say it's my idea and in posting it here then it's "out there" and I can't hold on to it anymore I guess. Maybe someone would be interested in making this a reality along with me, miracles happen sometimes.
Anyway, since we're not going to get a scanner from Uniden or Whistler anytime soon that can do all the things that SDR software + some "cheap USB TV tuners" are capable of, it looks like we've got to do it ourselves. This could be one way of getting things going, I suppose.
I know about the "PortaPack" for HackRF and I find it appealing to some degree but, honestly it's a huge freakin' blocky beastly hack if there ever was one - a GREAT hack, mind you, but a bodge more than anything else (and a damned cool one, seriously). What I had in mind would be, I don't know, more capable in some respects, perhaps?
It's all about the software, as the developer of SDR-Radio says at his website. Hardware is easy, but with SDR, it's all about the software.
And, the biggest thing of all: because it's all about the software, the potential to make this work as the concept is designed plus be able to add all sorts of new digital decode capabilities for things like P25 Phase I and maybe even Phase II, DMR, NXDN, etc is all possible if the right talented creative developer(s) happen to be interested. Imagine what this could become in the right hands (pun very much intended).
Until we get some talented creative developer to actually create a "scanner" application that basically uses the SDR in such a manner that the software interface you work with is literally like something you'd hold in your hand aka an actual physical scanner from Uniden/Whistler/etc then I don't see this ever happening, or at least not anytime soon until such a talented creative developer comes along and makes such a piece of software.
SDR is limited right now by that aspect: talent and creativity with respect to creating the software that puts the SDR hardware to use for whatever purpose. I personally am still very frustrated that there isn't a proper trunk tracking SDR application several years in now (meaning the whole "new" SDR generation that's come into existence because of the popularity of "cheap USB TV tuner" RTL sticks which really got things moving about 3-4 years ago).
And by that what I mean is I want and hope someday to have a single application, whether it's on a personal computer of some kind running Windows/OSX/Linux/whatever or a smartphone running Android/iOS/Windows Phone/etc that presents me with an interface that looks like a handheld or base/mobile scanner and can be used in exactly the same manner.
I'm not a developer or programmer at all, to any degree, but damned if I don't sometimes sit here staring at this screen wondering "Ok, why the hell hsan't someone done this yet? People are using SDR devices for all kinds of neat but basically (in my opinion) dead-end situations like decoding public transportation bus routes, or decoding the radio data sent from traffic lights, or something similarly innocuous - when is some talented creative developer going to realize there's some potential money to be made by creating what most people using RTL sticks and other SDR hardware are wanting: a way to truly make a software based "scanner" that works just like an actual physical one and not some wideband reception software that can store some frequencies in memories and then let you "scan" them till it hits on something."
Or words to that effect.
Here's something I've considered making, from a hardware perspective, and since I don't have this copyrighted or trademarked or whatever I know that by "outing myself" with this idea here at RR I can't stop someone from basically stealing this idea and running with it which is entirely possible. I'd lose out on potential revenue I suppose but I'm not a business person either sadly. Anyway, here's the idea I wanted to make a reality recently:
Some smartphones are just the right size, but that's a big personal thing for the majority of people. Some folks can't stand large ones so they prefer devices with displays that are 4.5" diagonal or less, while some people have a middle ground where something 4.5" to maybe 5 or 5.2" is much better. Then there's a few folks that love big huge devices with 5.5" or larger displays. Having said that, the "sweet spot" for me is about 4.6" to 5" display size. Because of that physical form factor, there's the potential that a popular smartphone will have some manufacturer out there making an external battery sleeve for that phone.
By that I don't mean some external "power pack" that just plugs into the charging port of said smartphone, I mean it's a battery mounted inside either a silicone-based material or something harder that allows you to insert the phone itself into and then it becomes a sleeve for the phone - here's a pic of what I mean and this one is designed for a popular smartphone from a few years back, the Motorola Moto X:
Now, this one has two benefits: first it provides a large 2800 mAh battery to charge the Moto X and keep it running for much longer, second it also adds a microSD slot for expanding the storage capability of the Moto X because it doesn't have that natively.
Here's the idea I had:
Because I/we know that sleeve has a battery inside what I had intended to do was actually get one (because I have a Moto X 1st gen) and then disassemble it, then remove the battery - I'd leave the microSD card reader in place - and after the battery is removed I'd have an opening inside the sleeve with some, well, empty space. And according to some info I found, the amount of space I'd find after removing the battery would be just enough to... <drumroll please>
Take the circuit board from an RTL stick and put it inside the casing, as well as drill a vertical hole down one side of the sleeve to accommodate a telescopic whip antenna...
See where this is going? Here's a crappy pic I sortakinda edited to give some idea of what I mean with regards to the sleeve. The blue outline is about where the battery compartment is or should be. The orange box on the right represents where the RTL board would be mounted inside the space vacated by the removal of the battery, while the left cylinder of sorts represents where the telescopic whip antenna would be mounted. As noted it might be possible to add an SMA connector there instead working off a pigtail from the RTL board but would require some way to make it really stiff. It's a concept-in-progress basically, but I think it's actually possible. Anyway, the concept pic cutaway:
What I'd be making with this design concept is - in this specific situation - an Android powered smartphone sleeve containing an RTL SDR receiver that is directly connected by way of OTG (On-The-Go) and has an internal antenna (more or less).
It would become an Android powered portable SDR using a traditional (meaning everything supports it) R820T2 (since it's the better version over the original R820T) that is directly interfaced with the USB port on the smartphone for the OTG without issues (and the Moto X does support OTG natively), powered by the phone's battery itself (so no, the extended battery aspect is now rendered moot), and it even has the internal telescopic whip antenna - I could even potentially add an SMA connector but the rigidity of the sleeve material might require some kind of reinforcement to keep it stiff and not snap off easily.
Suffice to say I've had this idea in the back of my head for about 8 months now and I keep thinking "You know, this would work, and it would be easy to accomplish, it could be a workable thing that people might be interested in..."
There's two problems, mainly, plus a third of sorts:
1) The Moto X is fairly old now so a lot of people might not like that aspect even though it's still a damned fine smartphone even now, seriously, and more than capable of being the processing power behind this kind of project.
2) As stated previously, I'm not a developer, or a programmer, and it's safe to say that on top of those issues for me personally it's also safe to say the state of Android-powered SDR applications currently is pretty much in the basement. SDR-Touch is probably the most popular tool out there but, it's so lackluster and expensive at about $10 for the "professional" version just unlocks the spectrum which is time limited to like 45 seconds in the demo and allows for RDS decoding and audio recording. While it does do those things, the developer hasn't added much of anything to the app overall that many people would want based on the reviews.
3) The fact of the matter is that this would be a really really niche product because it would require a specific model of smartphone and specific model of external sleeve for it. There are other smartphones and other sleeves, yes, but I chose the Moto X as the example since I happen to own one, it has a great form factor, fits well in the hand, and using that sleeve from Mugen for this project would make it a bulky thing obviously but for those of us that are used to having a handheld scanner or HT of some kind it's not really a big deal.
Besides, it would still be your traditional Android smartphone overall so, this idea really hits home on a lot of fronts in my opinion. I really wish I could make this a reality, I don't get great ideas all that often but this one I really think is pretty awesome (tooting my own horn here, stand back...).
In general, SDR on smartphones sucks, and I wish I could do something about that because I believe there is a seriously untapped market there that could be utilized to make some great things happen. I use Android as the example but these days - from what I understand - it's not that tough to port code from one platform to another since they're all using essentially the same types of hardware (ARM processor architecture, etc). But what do I know...
It's just an idea, I figured I'd share it since it seems to be similar to what this thread is about so, if you're a talented creative Android software developer that happens to be into SDR as much as most of us these days, perhaps you and I should talk, who knows.
I won't go so far as to slap a watermark or something with copyrights all over this but, suffice to say it's my idea and in posting it here then it's "out there" and I can't hold on to it anymore I guess. Maybe someone would be interested in making this a reality along with me, miracles happen sometimes.
Anyway, since we're not going to get a scanner from Uniden or Whistler anytime soon that can do all the things that SDR software + some "cheap USB TV tuners" are capable of, it looks like we've got to do it ourselves. This could be one way of getting things going, I suppose.
I know about the "PortaPack" for HackRF and I find it appealing to some degree but, honestly it's a huge freakin' blocky beastly hack if there ever was one - a GREAT hack, mind you, but a bodge more than anything else (and a damned cool one, seriously). What I had in mind would be, I don't know, more capable in some respects, perhaps?
It's all about the software, as the developer of SDR-Radio says at his website. Hardware is easy, but with SDR, it's all about the software.
And, the biggest thing of all: because it's all about the software, the potential to make this work as the concept is designed plus be able to add all sorts of new digital decode capabilities for things like P25 Phase I and maybe even Phase II, DMR, NXDN, etc is all possible if the right talented creative developer(s) happen to be interested. Imagine what this could become in the right hands (pun very much intended).
I still prefer the remote control concept. You could have a much better SDR connected to a significant antenna for HF work, and another for VHF/UHF. Granted you lose the "local" receiving aspects, but you retain the general area communications, and gain the extended coverage of a base station over a portable.
But, nice concept, and I certainly would not mind seeing that. (but then, I am a scanner junkie as most everyone knows)
I still have my Optoelectronics Xplorer, Scout, and even the MicroCounter (I think that's what it was called) - a frequency counter designed to fit in a pager case. I even modified a standard Motorola pager case to use for it. Way, way before Close Call and Signal Stalker.
But, nice concept, and I certainly would not mind seeing that. (but then, I am a scanner junkie as most everyone knows)
I still have my Optoelectronics Xplorer, Scout, and even the MicroCounter (I think that's what it was called) - a frequency counter designed to fit in a pager case. I even modified a standard Motorola pager case to use for it. Way, way before Close Call and Signal Stalker.
br0adband
Member
Well, again, being it's an Android powered smartphone above and beyond anything else, you could easily remote into whatever and control all that stuff too while making use of SDR hardware in the palm of your hand while you're out and about. It's the best of three worlds in that respect: it's a smartphone, it's an SDR device, and it's a remote control for all the "heavy iron" hardware back in the shack.
And I remember those counters well, owned a Scout long ago but got rid of it - amazingly enough - when CloseCall came to Uniden scanners, go figure.
And I remember those counters well, owned a Scout long ago but got rid of it - amazingly enough - when CloseCall came to Uniden scanners, go figure.
Dygear
Member
You mean a RFSpace CloudSDR or CloudIQ with
www.sdranywhere.com
Works great from my Android devices
73
Paul
This is probably the closest thing I had in mind except that it would have a conventional case-style much like a modern day handheld scanner like the PSR-500, etc. It would have a keypad on the front as well as a volume / squelch knob on top, etc. Wow, I didn't even know that there was such a thing as the Portapack. Now just imagine if it was able to support such programs as Unitrunker, SDR-Trunk and DSD+
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after 24h in the Backback it will be brocken.
What I would need i a Multi Input receiver!
1090 with the Filter and LNA stuff.
2x for the ACARS Bands (131/ 136) would be nice.
1x for AIS and +2x for other interesting stuff.
No Internal Battery! The best think is a Modular one.
My idea is an USB Backplane and slots for the different Receiver with LNA and so.
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