Harassment for photography: not just for railfans

[MacombMonitor]

Hey...it says No Photography!

 

[typesix]

Here in MA the MBTA transit agency is being sued by the local ACLU over not being able to take photos.

 

[jeffrey420]

I had a photojournalism class several years ago and was told you need learn the local laws. Most places if you are on public property basically what you can see is open game. Now if you boost yourself up to photograph over a privacy fence you most likely be in violation. Just like if someone uses a telephoto lens to photograph through a window you will be violating their expectation of privacy. This could be trouble.

I just use common sense when photographing things and people. If you believe that you are within your rights, and the officer tells you he wants your film, just request a supervisor. This way even if they do take your film, which I don't think will happen if your are right. Still you will have another witness if you wish to pursue it futher.

What our officials should realize is, that if some terrorist was going to take pictures for some secret operation. He is not going to be going to the scene with two or three cameras, an assortment of lenses, and a tripod to do reconnaissance.

 

[jparks29]

IMO, I don't feel any safer now than prior to 9-11.

I feel so safe, with my duct tape, and rolls of plastic sheeting.....(D.H.S. APPROVED!!)

( a short story)

last march, on a flight from BWI->SEATAC , coming into Chicago-Midway, for a layover, I was teasing my mom about a landing being nothing but a controlled crash....she doesnt like flying, but she knew I was just messing with her...

after we land, a TSA "guy",a stewardess,and pilot ask to talk to me, say they had "complaints" that I was saying the plane was going to crash.. TSA guy wants to be "hard" and start grilling me, I explain to the guy that I was teasing my mom,and explain in detail, about the flaps,reducing airspeed,changing the airflow over the wings, reducing the lift created by the wings,differences in air pressure,etc.... basically, dropping out of the sky, but in a controlled manner, A CONTROLLED CRASH......, TSA guy is stumbling all over himself,half of the terminology he doesn't understand...the pilot has a grin on his face by the time I mention that my grandfather was a flight instructor for CAP,and a retired Lt. Cmdr. in the Navy,and I myself was working on my pilots license....The pilot gives his ascenting nod, to let TSA guy know it's cool for me to stay on the plane, and TSA guy gives me a warning about how serious things are .....

remind me again why I can't engage in a discussion about middle eastern political instability in a security checkpoint line???

meanwhile... I'm the "bad guy" because I didnt know I was supposed to have my laptop out and ready for inspection...

nope, "the terrorists" aren't winning, yet our liberties are being removed, or limited, every day....hmm.

(steps off soapbox).

 

[dic]

"If we keep the people afraid, we can get them to believe whatever we want them to believe".

Joseph Goebbels
Berlin, 1938

 

[Dorpmuller]

nope, "the terrorists" aren't winning, yet our liberties are being removed, or limited, every day....hmm.

(steps off soapbox).

The terrorists are in Washington, removing those rights!!

Rich

 

[icom1020]

Kinda of an odd story but 2 years ago, I was on a sanctioned railroad speeder trip that took us by rail into a naval shipyard. This was all arranged thru the speeder group with the host railroad having (supposedly?)pre-arranged this since their trackage ends previously at a junction but they have trackage rights on USN rail. Anyway, we get down there and this is the turn around point, right in front of the mothballed USS Ranger . (This was the former home of the Missouri and New Jersey previously) We get out and eat whatever lunch we had and naturally start shooting video and pictures until someone notices a sign saying no photography even though there is a pull out spot nearby on the public road which affords the same view. We stop shooting and before long a MP shows up asking what 30+ speeders are doing there. The roadmaster who was in the lead from the RR was explaining this then V.2 shows up in the form of a civillian fed cop and finnally they shook hands and we got out of there but I did get some good close ups of the ships nearby and some of the older USN rail equip in the yard.

 

[wwhitby]

"the terrorists" aren't winning, yet our liberties are being removed, or limited, every day....hmm.

If our liberties are being removed, then the terrorists ARE winning :-(

Warren

 

[Halfpint]

I recently visited a friend at a local repair/maintenance shop for a `local' RR, that shall remain nameless to keep famial peace on this end, at said friend's invitation. As is my habit I had both my scanner and digital `pocket point-n-shoot' camera along. After sitting up in the `lunchroom' and chatting a while we went out onto the shop floor so that he could show off a couple jobs he was currently working on. (It had been part of our chatting that it had come up that I wanted to see a bit more about the `new?' AC locos.) Anyway... After crawling through a couple of those he showed me a couple of similar ones that were of the `old?' DC persuasion and I pulled out my camera and started taking pictures of some of the things he was pointing out about them. We then went back over to the two AC locos that he was working on and he started pointing out the same areas on them and, naturally, I started taking more pictures. Shortly afterwards, about 10 - 15 minutes later, this little bespectaled guy in a suit shows up and starts ranting and raving about `National Security', `proprietary information', and a whole bunch more stuff and demands that I immediately turn over my `film' or face being arrested. When my friend, who's the second in charge shop foreman asked him what it was all about and just where and when this `policy' was/had been posted this guy basically `flipped out' and ran off saying he was calling the `dicks' and was going to have us *both* arrested. About another half hour passed and here trhis guy comes `chugging' back with this other guy in tow. When they got to us he screamed "Arrest them!" to which the other guy said, "Why? I still don't understand or see just what it is they are or have been doing that is wrong.". After about a 5 - 10 minute discussion with the new guy he turned to the first one and not so politely told him to basically `stuff it'. As soon as the first guy's `huff' showed up he left in it and the second guy, my friend, and I started discussing locos, railfanning, and cameras. {VB GRIN!} According to the `dick' the first guy was basically a `paper-pusher' who had been recently transferred to the shops and thought that being a `suit' made him both better than the people there and some sort of arbiter of `the rules' and was busy making himself a `Royale PITA'.

What made this all even more `interesting' was when I headed out to come back home the second guy asked me if I happened to have my transfer cable with me. Seems that he had a laptop along with him and he wanted copies of my pictures to add to his own `collection'. When I got to his truck I was suprised to find that not only did he have a nice `ruggedized' laptop with him but he also had a nice almost top of the line digital camera! He also had a whole 10gig logical drive on the laptop devoted to nothing but RR pictures and is going to burn a few discs with them for me! (And after comparing what he send me for any possible duplicates I'm going burn some for him from my, admittedly smaller, collection.) He also had a scanner and we compared what we had programmed into them along with the scanners themselves. (He carried his so that he could keep up with what the local LEOs might have going that might be of interest to him rather than what was happening in his `balliwick'. But, he did have RR freqs programmed in, too

Oh, BTW, he basically told me that unless one is being a `flaming "Adam Henry"' of a "foamer" there aren't any problems or `policies' against shooting pics around this particular line's facilites. If one *is* one of the aforementioned "foamers" they *will* `take appropriate action', however. (The latter was said with a *very big* wicked grin!) He also gave me a `contact card' and wrote a number to call if I were to have either any questions or any information I might want to pass on which now resides in my wallet. (Right alongside a `contact card' from the `other' local line' and those of a couple of the local `shortlines'. {CHORTLE!})

I guess that *if* there *might* be a `moral' here it is that one should try and make friends with `the natives' and develop `contacts' and it'll make things a lot easier in the long run?

Just an `Olde Fart's' 2¢ worth? {VB GRIN!}

 

[MacombMonitor]

You should have taken his picture and wrote a story on your experience for the local newspaper! Some of these people need the wind taken out of their sails!

 

[tonyneece]

In spite of having an Amtrak contractor placard hanging from my rear-view mirror I was challenged, simply because I had parked briefly on Amtrak property to consult a map. I was advised I was not permitted to loiter on my way to my assigned area. I said I was sorry, didn't want to be a bother to anyone and said I would be on my way. After that the fellow became friendly and we had a nice conversation. He also volunteered that if I had a reason to be outside my assigned area to check in with the office first.

I am actually glad I was challenged. It is a good thing that the RR employees are taking the warning to "Maintain a heightened awarness" seriously.

I have in the past been given a form giving me permisssion to photograph from platforms open only to ticketed passengers moving directly on or off a train, simply by signing a liability waiver and a statement that I understand and abide an included set of guidelines.

On other occasions I have gotten a lot of cooperation by simply taking a few nice photo prints to leave behind in a yard office or station master's office.

TN

 

[tonyneece]

Here is one bad experience:

While watching a crew switch the GEMCO yard in Van Nuys many years ago, I was chased by a switchman threatening me with a club!
Later I found out why. A switchman had been badly beaten and robbed in broad daylight in that very yard only days before.
No wonder sometimes RRmen are leary of strangers on the property.

 

[karldotcom]

In Gemco yard? or from the Amtrak platform across the way?

if you were in the yard, it is trespassing from either the Van Nuys Blvd or Woodman Avenue side.

There are some better views in that area now that the GM Emissions lab is completely gone.

 

[gwtc199]

It doesn't matter what is being denied (like photography), when authorities tell you the excuse that 9-11 is the reason you can't do what you have done for years, its just means the authorities are paranoid. And when they are paranoid enough to arrest you and fingerprint you like they did to Jim in the lead story, that means THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON. When Police are busy dealing with harmless people like Jim, the real Terrorists are doing what they need without any trouble.

 

[exkalibur]

I haven't read the whole thread... but...

If you're doing something like taking pictures of an oil refinery at 4:30am, you should darn well expect to be questioned.

There's no law saying it is illegal to take pictures of such things during peace time, however there is a law that says it is illegal to take pics of them during times of war, and right now America is at war. I'm not too sure what law it is exactly, but I remember reading it a few years ago after 9/11.

 

[benjaminfs733]

About 1 week prior to 9-11 I was in Kosovo and made the unfortunate choice to take video of some French Military vehicles parked in front of their temporary base. Long, scary story short, several lessons learned, (1) compliance is always necessary in a foreign country when dealing with a squad of heavily armed military personal [actually, already knew that one] (2) always carry your passport [should have known that one].

All in all I would have preferred any Officer/Military/Security personal in this country challenging my actions.

 

[Fast1eddie]

Think!

 

[Allan_Love_Jr]

The terrorists are in Washington, removing those rights!!

Rich

That is such a true statement too. I agree with you 100%.

 

[cpohlad]

I haven't read the whole thread... but...

If you're doing something like taking pictures of an oil refinery at 4:30am, you should darn well expect to be questioned.

There's no law saying it is illegal to take pictures of such things during peace time, however there is a law that says it is illegal to take pics of them during times of war, and right now America is at war. I'm not too sure what law it is exactly, but I remember reading it a few years ago after 9/11.

Yeah, where is said law you mention above?

 

[shaft]

Yeah, where is said law you mention above?

..and please don't reference the Patroit Act.