jparks29
John McClane
The Orion is the best mobile made, with Spectra and X9000 being damn close runner ups...
IMO
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Harris P7300 or Motorola XTS5000
- Thread starter KampingAnthony1AolCo
- Start date
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The Orion is the best mobile made, with Spectra and X9000 being damn close runner ups...
IMO
Yup, now if I could just figure out where I put my lowband FPP Spectra......:roll:
Xts5000 has been a reliable radio in work use and also have one personal that is reliable. I am aware of its end of line days. I feel it's rugged and same things others said. Personal use parts etc seem to be all over. So for that one I like it. Work use inevitably without doubt they'll most likely go to a apx as contracts goin to be for a while. I have recently looked at Harris and find them interesting. If I had ability I'd try one out for work use and it would work. The cost of self use right now eh but if I had option to try one out on loan you bet I would. Now as for the 5000 xtl mobile version lol idk but that's a different deal.
KampingAnthony1AolCo
Member
XTS5000 or Harris P7300
I would personly want the XTS5000 because it has 1,000 channels and that is alot of channels for what I want. I dont really need 14,000 channels. Although I do like how the Harris can do more modes than the XTS5000. I am more on the fence.
I would personly want the XTS5000 because it has 1,000 channels and that is alot of channels for what I want. I dont really need 14,000 channels. Although I do like how the Harris can do more modes than the XTS5000. I am more on the fence.
Well.....The "14,000" channel is a nice comfort to have.
You have the frequencies of the agencies that pertain to you ( Public Safety ). Then you have the frequencies of the ajoining area you need in case of mutual aid. THEN you go outside that area and you have agencies that have a lot of responsibility ( chemical plants - manufacturing facilities...and the lot ).
It is nice to have those frequencies to listen to. The outlying areas for Law Enforcement, Fire, EMS, Office of Emergency Services ( local - and state level ), Hazardous Material Teams, Medical frequencies and Medevac Frequencies.
Some time ago.....near my "locale" there was a plant explosion. Then there was another plant that had a chemical leak ( consideration to amount of chemical leak and wind direction ) that was a consideration to where I was at. SOOOO having a radio with a lot of channels, even though I may not respond, keeps me and my co-workers updated for a possible emergency at MY location. Chemical leak------> a vapor release of a toxic substance------> do we need to start an evacuation, or can we beat the telephones and radios and start a "Shelter in Place"?
Local Law Enforcement is on VHF-High analog and P25 UHF. Local Fire and EMS is on VHF-High. State Police is Low Band , VHF-High ( Interstate Patrol ) and north of where I am at...uses UHF. Ajoining county to my west.....is UHF. County to the south of me.....Is UHF and VHF.
NO, you cannot monitor all those channels at once. But they are very - very comforting and informative to listen to ; when there is a large scale emergency or an incident that may involve a Mutual Aid response. Put the agencies - counties - cities....in "banks" in your radio. Some people scramble them, and just put in what they feel...mixing agencies in a radio bank. Don't do that. One county - city - agency ( however you want it ) in one radio bank. When you scan that bank.....you only get the pertinent radio conversations that you need. You have an emergency is "Apple County". Go to the radio bank on you handheld or mobile......hit the scan button.....and the only radio conversations your are going to hear is the emergency in "Apple County". A explosion in "Greytowne". Move the radio scan bank to "Greytowne" ---> push scan, and "Greytowne" is all you are going to hear. You would be surprised at the people that do not set up their radio systems.....Simple, and there is "Hundred" radio conversations going on that does not need to be listened to.
Setting stationary in an apparatus or inside the office with the radios, listening to events unfold ( even that great car chase ) may just be of great benefit.......to know what is going on before you respond and/or to help you with your job should you have to provide backup / assistance. Public Safety listening in to that industrial emergency, explosion, chemical leak..........is not only interesting......but may help you do your job a lot more better or be better prepared.
How many of us ( in Public Safety ) has listened in to that car wreck, fire or other emergency.....and have been out the door for two or three minutes when the tones dropped telling us to respond for Mutual Aid, another unit (ambulance) request , assistance or manpower request ( brush fire / entrapment / rehab / overhall?
I actually monitored on the radio - Land Mobile Radio - ( partially ) a chemical leak....close to where I live. I kept track of wind speed and direction, and the events that unfolded. Although the signal was not that great and had some static and low modulation.....there was still a GREAT concern.
But the key is.....AGAIN, if you have that 1,000 channel radio and have the ability to chance channels to talk.....please change channels...and don't use the dispatcher as your own personal secretary.
Optimal radio security is AES or DES encryption.....Not NEXEDGE / MOTOTRBO.
Don't buy two mobile radios....when one "Dual band" radio will do. Especially when space is a concern.....and you can listen to VHF-High and UHF frequencies on one radio - instead of UHF and VHF-High blasting from two radios at the same time.
FF - Medic !!!
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A good idea and theory to program out laying areas in and other possible priority items. Sadly it isn't as complex most think in allot and I mean allot codeplugs in some levels. Typically immediate local area and interop items are in radio and maybe close surrounding area. Other then that most law could care less what else or the rest usually have no option as it comes as is and there fine with it. Allot shops sadly /\/\ start at 80 a hour and up for codeplug editing. Many I found don't program right, add enough or what they should, scan lists and tx settings wrong in poor condition, no mdc options enabled. I seen many that have checked man down however don't have it enabled elsewhere. This is one prob I have. I can agree the radio a Leo or fire person carries should hve the items you state but do they? I found 8 out of ten times no. So 1,000 channels so far is enough for most as they only use three zones of 16 each from most I seen. Personally would I want the 14,000 oh yes and you bet a few above average Leo's and fire personnel would too.
12dbsinad
Member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,953
What types of "dual band" mobile radios are you refering to? I hope it would be an FCC certified one, and designed for public safety use.
Vertex Standard | VX-6000
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Kenwood - TK-690-790-890
FF - Medic !!!
I like dual watch ability in a radio.
I had to take a break. Here is another link. ----------> Vertex Standard | VX-P920
FF - Medic !!!!
I own four 5Ks and one P7300, along with a bag full of P7100s and other assorted radios.
Unquestionably (based on my experiences) Motorola makes a superior radio. The 5K has every
performance advantage over the 7300 and the 7100, as well. And the 7300 is NOT as good a
performer as the 7100. In situations where reception of an EDACS trunked system is noticeably
noisy on the P7300, the P7100 is crystal clear.
"Stock" RX audio quality of the P7100 is atrocious. The P7300 has improved on this but it it still
a far cry from the very high quality audio of an XTS5000.
The only advantages that the P7300 has over an XTS are due to the fact that it's a much newer
platform and supports Phase II TDMA trunking if you have that feature enabled. (Mine does. Not
that I actually expect to ever really use it.)
Comparing each radio for general performance, ease of use, and quality within each manufacturer's
system environment, the XTS5000 is hands down the superior radio. But that doesn't mean that
the P7300 is a bad radio. It's a good radio. It's just not an EXCELLENT radio. An XTS5000 IS an excellent radio.
My radios (both my M5300 mobile and my P7300 portable, which have virtually identical feature sets) are completely maxed out on system, group, and channel capacity. 65K all the way. But it just doesn't matter. If your radio supports 1000 channels or groups, odds are that you have well over twice what you need it to support so beyond that point it becomes academic.
Since you're asking about a Phase II TDMA Harris radio, the P7300, then it's fair to note that a fair comparison for features would be Motorola's Phase II TDMA offerings, the APX line.
I've had and APX7000 and an APX6000, both. Not for long, someone offered me way too much money for them. But they are awesome, very impressive performers. They scream QUALITY! the moment you pick them up and your impression of them will only get better once you start to use them.
They are the best portable radios I've ever had any experience with, although my experience with them is limited. I only tested them in conventional operation, both analog and P25 digital. They were as good as an XTS5K in terms of RF performance but had even better audio quality, both transmitting and receiving. Great ergonomics, very easy to read and functional display and menu systems. First rate all around. I'm looking forward to adding them to my permanent collection.
I will state, thought, that when it comes to programming software, Harris (and the GE legacy brands before it) got it right LONG ago when they created ProGrammer, and later, RPM, which is a SENSIBLE software package that is all you need to support the whole Harris/legacy brands product line that existed and was in support at the time that particular version was written.
And, best of all, you can read any file from any supported radio via RPM or ProGrammer and load it right into any OTHER supported radio. None of this NONSENSE of not even being able to clone basic information from one Moto radio to another if the model numbers aren't IDENTICAL.
Having become an experienced RPM and ProGrammer user, I will rate Motorola's XTS programming software a solid 5 on the 10 scale. And the APX software rates a 3. But RPM and ProGrammer earn a 9.
Motorola needs to unify ALL their supported public safety radio products with a SINGLE programming software package that allows cloning across model numbers and feature sets with a minimum of hassle and user input. Follow Harris on this one.
Unquestionably (based on my experiences) Motorola makes a superior radio. The 5K has every
performance advantage over the 7300 and the 7100, as well. And the 7300 is NOT as good a
performer as the 7100. In situations where reception of an EDACS trunked system is noticeably
noisy on the P7300, the P7100 is crystal clear.
"Stock" RX audio quality of the P7100 is atrocious. The P7300 has improved on this but it it still
a far cry from the very high quality audio of an XTS5000.
The only advantages that the P7300 has over an XTS are due to the fact that it's a much newer
platform and supports Phase II TDMA trunking if you have that feature enabled. (Mine does. Not
that I actually expect to ever really use it.)
Comparing each radio for general performance, ease of use, and quality within each manufacturer's
system environment, the XTS5000 is hands down the superior radio. But that doesn't mean that
the P7300 is a bad radio. It's a good radio. It's just not an EXCELLENT radio. An XTS5000 IS an excellent radio.
My radios (both my M5300 mobile and my P7300 portable, which have virtually identical feature sets) are completely maxed out on system, group, and channel capacity. 65K all the way. But it just doesn't matter. If your radio supports 1000 channels or groups, odds are that you have well over twice what you need it to support so beyond that point it becomes academic.
Since you're asking about a Phase II TDMA Harris radio, the P7300, then it's fair to note that a fair comparison for features would be Motorola's Phase II TDMA offerings, the APX line.
I've had and APX7000 and an APX6000, both. Not for long, someone offered me way too much money for them. But they are awesome, very impressive performers. They scream QUALITY! the moment you pick them up and your impression of them will only get better once you start to use them.
They are the best portable radios I've ever had any experience with, although my experience with them is limited. I only tested them in conventional operation, both analog and P25 digital. They were as good as an XTS5K in terms of RF performance but had even better audio quality, both transmitting and receiving. Great ergonomics, very easy to read and functional display and menu systems. First rate all around. I'm looking forward to adding them to my permanent collection.
I will state, thought, that when it comes to programming software, Harris (and the GE legacy brands before it) got it right LONG ago when they created ProGrammer, and later, RPM, which is a SENSIBLE software package that is all you need to support the whole Harris/legacy brands product line that existed and was in support at the time that particular version was written.
And, best of all, you can read any file from any supported radio via RPM or ProGrammer and load it right into any OTHER supported radio. None of this NONSENSE of not even being able to clone basic information from one Moto radio to another if the model numbers aren't IDENTICAL.
Having become an experienced RPM and ProGrammer user, I will rate Motorola's XTS programming software a solid 5 on the 10 scale. And the APX software rates a 3. But RPM and ProGrammer earn a 9.
Motorola needs to unify ALL their supported public safety radio products with a SINGLE programming software package that allows cloning across model numbers and feature sets with a minimum of hassle and user input. Follow Harris on this one.
To add to my above comments, I want to note that I use both an XTS5000 and a P7100, or P7300, and an M5300 virtually every single day. And due to goofs made by Motorola often enough in the past, I no longer consider myself to be an unreasonable Motorola fanboy. Motorola has made its share of mistakes, and some of them are fairly epic. But so has Harris. I have found PLENTY of reasons to like Harris products, as well as Motorola products. I have also found plenty of things to criticize with both brands. I guess I'm generally neutral now, when it comes to anything like "brand loyalty because that's what I've always liked before". But after all this is said and done, I still rate the APX as the best portable radio I've ever tried, and the XTS5000 a close second, with Harris P7100s coming in after the XTS5000 and Harris P7300s coming in after the P7100.
As for mobile radios, I have no experience with anything newer than an Astro Spectra in the Motorola world, but the M5300 is a current product and aside from having a rather quirky procedure for updating the firmware, I find the M5300/M7300 series mobile radios to be solid performers like their predecessors, the M7100 and Orion.
I think well enough of the Mx300 series mobile radios that I chose one to install in my car. Which required a fair bit of creative engineering. GM never engineered a Cadillac CTS to accept a mobile radio installation. But by sacrificing the coin tray I got the control head in there and put the radio unit in where the obsolete OnStar radio unit used to be installed.
As for mobile radios, I have no experience with anything newer than an Astro Spectra in the Motorola world, but the M5300 is a current product and aside from having a rather quirky procedure for updating the firmware, I find the M5300/M7300 series mobile radios to be solid performers like their predecessors, the M7100 and Orion.
I think well enough of the Mx300 series mobile radios that I chose one to install in my car. Which required a fair bit of creative engineering. GM never engineered a Cadillac CTS to accept a mobile radio installation. But by sacrificing the coin tray I got the control head in there and put the radio unit in where the obsolete OnStar radio unit used to be installed.
The APX software is actually a step backwards in functionality from a programmers standpoint as far as I am concerned. And where did QCII decode go??
XTL and APX mobiles are solid and reliable, with only minor quirkiness with power issues. However, if you install the radio according to the factory manual, you won't have power issues.
XTL and APX mobiles are solid and reliable, with only minor quirkiness with power issues. However, if you install the radio according to the factory manual, you won't have power issues.
DisasterGuy
Member
Just to echo one important thing Elroy has said here, while the P7300 is of the XTS5000 vintage, it is much more comparable to the APX6000. As you can see in the photo I posted above I use both professionally and find both to be good solid performers. Using a P25 Phase II system for the comparison point the only thing that varies is the fact that the audio from the APX (TX and RX) has a bit more bass and the volume on the APX is cleaner at high volume.
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I don't really know the exact dates of introduction or the end of production dates, but as I recall it, the XTS has been in production for more than a decade and the Px300 Harris platform has been in production for four, maybe five years. I have a copy of the 2008 edition of the M/A-Com catalog around here somewhere, but I can't find it. I don't recall if the Px300 radios are in the 2008 catalog or not. If they are, then they were new at the time.
The copy of the APX7000 brochure found on the Bearcom website has a copyright date of 2008 so it would appear that the APX and the M/Px300 product lines are in fact contemporaries of each other, developed and released not far from each other in terms of release date.
However, I note that while the APX has created a huge stir, and a great deal of excitement, at least within the radio geek clique, the M/A-Com/Harris radios failed to make such a big splash even though they are (apparently) less expensive and arguably easier for an individual to obtain.
I don't think it's correct to describe the P7300 as being of XTS5000 vintage as the dates of introduction are in fact very close to those for the APX7000, with the APX6000 and other APX models following fairly shortly thereafter. (I have already had an APX6000, and in fact I might have been the first civilian to purchase a new one from an authorized Moto retailer. It arrived in a molded polyethylene container in a cardboard box. Minimal packaging, which makes sense particularly if you're going to be buying hundreds or thousands of them for a major system order.)
For me the dream radio would be an APX that also does EDACS and ProVoice. If I had no requirement (or desire) for working with and listening to EDACS/ProVoice, I would have very little interest in anything but an APX at this point.
One thing I want to note about the P7300 vs. its older P7100 cousin is that the older P7100 has a superior receiver compared to the one P7300 I have to compare it to. The 7300 requires a higher received signal strength for full quieting and is more susceptible to interference from outside noise sources, such as the switch mode power supply in an LCD monitor. Interestingly, though, the built-in RSSI indicators in both radios (via FCC menu) seem to both indicate pretty accurately when they are checked against a signal generator.
The P7300 also has a very comprehensive suite of diagnostic and test screens in its FCC menu. I'm frankly amazed at how much is in that menu. It extends well beyond the more limited implementation of the P7100's FCC menu.
Frankly Motorola could stand to take a cue from the 7300's FCC menu test features and add comparable capability to their radios.
It is incredibly convenient to be able to use the test menu in trunking mode and actually be able to identify which system repeater is underperforming in either power output or audio quality, with no other test equipment necessary.
In that mode I can see the site ID, signal strength, channel number currently talking, channel number of the control channel repeater, and system utilization expressed as a percentage, from idle to 100 percent. Really cool, really useful for the tech..
Motorola, pay attention to that.
The copy of the APX7000 brochure found on the Bearcom website has a copyright date of 2008 so it would appear that the APX and the M/Px300 product lines are in fact contemporaries of each other, developed and released not far from each other in terms of release date.
However, I note that while the APX has created a huge stir, and a great deal of excitement, at least within the radio geek clique, the M/A-Com/Harris radios failed to make such a big splash even though they are (apparently) less expensive and arguably easier for an individual to obtain.
I don't think it's correct to describe the P7300 as being of XTS5000 vintage as the dates of introduction are in fact very close to those for the APX7000, with the APX6000 and other APX models following fairly shortly thereafter. (I have already had an APX6000, and in fact I might have been the first civilian to purchase a new one from an authorized Moto retailer. It arrived in a molded polyethylene container in a cardboard box. Minimal packaging, which makes sense particularly if you're going to be buying hundreds or thousands of them for a major system order.)
For me the dream radio would be an APX that also does EDACS and ProVoice. If I had no requirement (or desire) for working with and listening to EDACS/ProVoice, I would have very little interest in anything but an APX at this point.
One thing I want to note about the P7300 vs. its older P7100 cousin is that the older P7100 has a superior receiver compared to the one P7300 I have to compare it to. The 7300 requires a higher received signal strength for full quieting and is more susceptible to interference from outside noise sources, such as the switch mode power supply in an LCD monitor. Interestingly, though, the built-in RSSI indicators in both radios (via FCC menu) seem to both indicate pretty accurately when they are checked against a signal generator.
The P7300 also has a very comprehensive suite of diagnostic and test screens in its FCC menu. I'm frankly amazed at how much is in that menu. It extends well beyond the more limited implementation of the P7100's FCC menu.
Frankly Motorola could stand to take a cue from the 7300's FCC menu test features and add comparable capability to their radios.
It is incredibly convenient to be able to use the test menu in trunking mode and actually be able to identify which system repeater is underperforming in either power output or audio quality, with no other test equipment necessary.
In that mode I can see the site ID, signal strength, channel number currently talking, channel number of the control channel repeater, and system utilization expressed as a percentage, from idle to 100 percent. Really cool, really useful for the tech..
Motorola, pay attention to that.
DisasterGuy
Member
I agree regarding the FCC menu. I use it daily to monitor our EDACS system. The M7300 and XG-75p menu is just as nice.
In terms of those features, the XG-100p is even a cut above in my opinion as you can view all that and more including being able to view talkgroup status on Phase 2 to see if the talkgroup is operating Fdma or TDMA and know what slot of the latter is being used. All site info is also viewable.
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In terms of those features, the XG-100p is even a cut above in my opinion as you can view all that and more including being able to view talkgroup status on Phase 2 to see if the talkgroup is operating Fdma or TDMA and know what slot of the latter is being used. All site info is also viewable.
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DisasterGuy
Member
By the way, you at be correct regarding vintage. I just have always viewed the XG series as akin to the APX line.
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They are of the same generation. I simply believe that the APX is a better radio in terms of ergonomics, audio quality, and user presentation. (Looks, mostly.) It also seems to be a bit better in terms of RF performance. But I would not characterize the P7300 as a bad radio.
I've seen one thing that's consistent when comparing Moto to GE (legacy) radios made for the public safety market: Upon evaluation and investigative analysis, it always appears to me that Motorola invests more in the engineering of the radio packaging. (Chassis, housing, etc) They also go to great lengths to deliver great audio quality. I know for certain that Motorola has invested literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in the development of the custom speakers and the housing acoustic for, IIRC, the Saber and Astro Saber line. I believe this is also true of the XTS line.
What's in a Harris radio? A 45 cent Foster speaker. Yeah.
Ge-etc-Harris tends to take more of an off the shelf approach to parts sourcing. Moto will invest in custom parts any time they need to in order to achieve a performance goal.
I've seen one thing that's consistent when comparing Moto to GE (legacy) radios made for the public safety market: Upon evaluation and investigative analysis, it always appears to me that Motorola invests more in the engineering of the radio packaging. (Chassis, housing, etc) They also go to great lengths to deliver great audio quality. I know for certain that Motorola has invested literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in the development of the custom speakers and the housing acoustic for, IIRC, the Saber and Astro Saber line. I believe this is also true of the XTS line.
What's in a Harris radio? A 45 cent Foster speaker. Yeah.
Ge-etc-Harris tends to take more of an off the shelf approach to parts sourcing. Moto will invest in custom parts any time they need to in order to achieve a performance goal.
12dbsinad
Member
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GE did have their moments back in the day that did win them some fame. Like when GE introduced the Pheonix and Pheonix DPS (dual priority scan) synthezised mobile radios. I believe Motorola was still shelling out Maxars at the time. How about the DELTA-SX mobiles with S-900 or S-800 control heads, designed by the influence of CHP I believe... and who can forget about the MASTR II base stations... cant't kill them. My suitcase GE programmer still works... I fired it up a couple weeks ago... lol.
GE did make some very innovative products.
The Rangr mobile (which was actually made by Japan Radio Corporation) is still arguably one of the best engineered, highest quality mobile radios ever made.
Its only shortcoming, a very limited memory, was very cleverly overcome by the S820 to S850 series "playskool" control heads. Which I always thought was a great piece of gear in and of itself. It was big, but it was ergonomic, had big, easy to use buttons, an easy to read display, and looked COOL at night.
Very smart of the GE engineers to make a control head that held all the system information, and would reprogram the limited memory in the mobile radio on the fly as needed.
It is also difficult to fault the ruggedness of the all die cast M-PD and M-PA portable radios. They were certainly bricks, but they would survive almost anything. The M-PDs (at least the select and scan models) also happened to have what I still think is the best audio quality of any GE legacy radio product.
The Rangr mobile (which was actually made by Japan Radio Corporation) is still arguably one of the best engineered, highest quality mobile radios ever made.
Its only shortcoming, a very limited memory, was very cleverly overcome by the S820 to S850 series "playskool" control heads. Which I always thought was a great piece of gear in and of itself. It was big, but it was ergonomic, had big, easy to use buttons, an easy to read display, and looked COOL at night.
Very smart of the GE engineers to make a control head that held all the system information, and would reprogram the limited memory in the mobile radio on the fly as needed.
It is also difficult to fault the ruggedness of the all die cast M-PD and M-PA portable radios. They were certainly bricks, but they would survive almost anything. The M-PDs (at least the select and scan models) also happened to have what I still think is the best audio quality of any GE legacy radio product.
12dbsinad
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The audio quility out of a MPD would blow you away, no doubt. The only PIA feature IMO was the ramp volume, and also channel select. Try changing volume fast while belt worn... isn't easy!
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