Has anyone successfully monitored Mesa?

[InlandAZ]

On digital that is -

In the past I've usually had to disable monitoring Mesa at times due to the amount of traffic that comes across. Not so with the new and improved digital network (maybe I'm just being skeptical here - but... a busy city doesn't turn silent because it moved to digital).

I can’t help but feel I either have a scanner issue (which could very well be my own doing) – or… the frequencies documented for the system are incomplete.

The freq's are those listed here on the RR Data Base - but the traffic is very scant, and impossible to listen to. It just seems odd to be so quiet - I have both the Gilbert and Mesa Talk Groups entered in the same bank which is operating in closed mode with none of the TG's locked out.

Phoenix (using the same network) comes through loud and clear.

 

[InlandAZ]

I'm pretty much throwing in the towel here folks - I've read several references (on the PRO 96 Yahoo forums) from those that have successfully monitored Mesa, and yet - no luck here...

The transmissions I do receive sound completely garbled - and nearly identical to one of the problems addressed by the DSP App U.12 update (my scanner shipped with DSP App F1.2, so I'm assuming no update is required).

Anyone else have problems Mesa? Very odd, in every other regard the scanner works perfectly.

 

[AZScanner]

Fear not fellow Mesa scannerist! First let me say that this system is a royal PITA to monitor so it will never come in perfectly all the time. With that in mind:

#1 Try this. Lock out all the control channels EXCEPT for simulcast D which is Mesa. You only want these 2 active:

PRWN CC D 867.75000 MOT 0.0
PRWN CC D 867.82500 MOT 0.0

#2 lock out all talkgroups marked in the RRDB as encrypted. You can't monitor them anyway - makes the scanner sound like a drunken R2D2.

For Mesa I mainly monitor these:
MESA PD C1 03000
MESA PD C2 03003
MESA PD C3 03006
MESA PD C4 03009
MESA PD C5 03012
MESA PD HOT 03005
MESA FD F1 03064
MESA FD F2 03065
MESA FD F3 03066
MESA FD F4 03067
MESA FD F5 03068
MESA FD F6 03069
MESA FD SFTY 03070
MESA FD RESC 03071

and for Gilbert I listen to these:

GILBERT PD 1 03049
GILBERT PD 2 03050
GILBERT PD 3 03051
GILBERT PD 4 03052
GILBERT PD 5 03053
GILBERT PD 6 03054
GILBERT SRCH 03058
GILBERT EVT1 03059
GILBERT EVT2 03060
GILBERT EVT3 03061
GILBERT EVT4 03062

Lock out all others.

Give that a try and let us know how it goes.
-AZ

 

[Mike_G_D]

Regarding problems with Mesa monitoring

Another thought here might be that you are located too close to an interferer source. This could be a control tower for a cellular or Nextel system, for example. Try turning on the attenuator ("A" in the display at the top) for your control channel. Also try removing the antenna completely and seeing if you get better results (does sometimes work in such cases). I am not that familiar with the new AZ trunking systems so I can't be certain here. If the Mesa and Phoenix (or whoever) users are on the same system and you can receive the Phoenix (or whoever) users fine but not the Mesa users then my suggestion above is probably invalid. In other words, if your receiving other users on the same system fine (assuming there ARE other users on said system - again, sorry, I don't live there so am not familiar with the actual system setups) but just can't get Mesa users then it isn't likely an interference issue.

Also, I recall reading of difficulties using the Pro-96 to receive the new Phoenix metro trunking system in the past (Mesa being a problem, too, as I recall). The Pro-96 was not originally designed to receive and decode any other digital mode besides C4FM which is used on mixed mode 3600 baud trunking systems. I believe that the system you are trying to listen to is a fully digital only system using a different modulation format (a variation of CQPSK, I believe). Supposedly, the 96 can, with the latest firmware, decode this form but even the Radio Shack folks admitted, after they came up with the fix, that it may not be 100% functional in all cases.

Your best bet is to contact a local scanner user group that you could physically go and meet with which has members who own 96's as well as the newest Unidens (which I understand work better than the 96 for the systems in your area based on what I've read in the past here) and get some hands on help and advice from them. Try a post asking for the contact info for such a group in this forum.

Good luck!

-M.D.

 

[InlandAZ]

Thanks for the replies -

The attenuator knocks the entire transmission off -

I'll load up the Talk Groups noted above and see if it helps (they're basically the same as those I already have, but at this point anything is worth a shot).

I'm not a "radio" guy (so bear with me here) - My assumption is that even though Mesa is part of the Phoenix Public Safety System, it is in reality physically separate - so it could be possible for me to receive an MSCO transmission and still not be able reveive Mesa. (Tower location?)

I'll keep plugging away.

 

[AZScanner]

Thanks for the replies -

I'm not a "radio" guy (so bear with me here) - My assumption is that even though Mesa is part of the Phoenix Public Safety System, it is in reality physically separate - so it could be possible for me to receive an MSCO transmission and still not be able reveive Mesa. (Tower location?)

Yes absolutely. For example, I work at Warner and Hardy in Tempe, and cannot receive Mesa in the building. If I'm outside, it works once in a while but usually it does what you describe. The only time I can get 'em is when they affiliate with Simulcast C which covers Tempe/Chandler. MCSO is no problem, but they are on a totally different system, and I'm a stones throw from Guadalupe, which they cover.

Have you considered a different antenna? If you have a house and can set one up, a good base antenna could make all the difference. Even the 800MHz antenna RS sells as a replacement for the stock duck is an improvement.

I also recommend the monthly ICP get together as a good place to meet some fellow scannerheads and get some good answers on the digital systems here. Check the arizona scanner yahoo group for details.

-AZ

 

[InlandAZ]

Yep, I have 800 MHz antennas (from RS) for both of the handhelds. It does help, but it’s still a long away from perfect. The scanner is so good in every other aspect - I guess I'll hang on to it and hope for a better patch.

I entered Scottsdale into my MCSO bank (in a separate talk group sub-bank) and they come in loud and clear.

So, just what's the deal with APCO 25 (in as much as you seem to know a heck of a lot more than I do about the system - actually that goes for most of the folks here...). Will all systems eventually go in the same direction as Mesa? If so - do you think GRE can provide DSP upgrades to address it?

 

[AZScanner]

Inland,

I don't know where you're at in the valley, but I'm thinking that is probably the problem. If you don't mind, can you post the approximate location where you live? Doesn't have to be specific, you can just say "Tempe" or "East Chandler" or "West Mesa", etc. I used to live in West Phoenix and could pull in the Mesa VHF channels no problem. Now with the new system, if you're not close enough to Mesa to get the Simulcast D's well, you're not going to be able to hear them. It's sounding more and more like that's the issue.

-AZ

 

[InlandAZ]

Rural and Chandler Blvd. - Just outside of Tempe in Chandler.

Where's their tower located?

 

[AZScanner]

OK, this is mainly your problem - location. The Mesa side of the system is designed to work only in Mesa - yes you can receive them in Tempe or Chandler, but reception will be spotty. I live just north of the big B of A building in Mesa and even then I have problems at times. The signal just isn't reaching you well enough to be decoded.

You need to somehow snag that signal clearly enough to pull them in from where you are. This means a good quality base antenna, up as high as you can get it. Also when scanning Mesa, keep the squelch all the way to the minimum. That's about all you can do. Sorry I don't have better news for ya.

-AZ

 

[InlandAZ]

OK, this is mainly your problem - location. The Mesa side of the system is designed to work only in Mesa - yes you can receive them in Tempe or Chandler, but reception will be spotty. I live just north of the big B of A building in Mesa and even then I have problems at times. The signal just isn't reaching you well enough to be decoded.

You need to somehow snag that signal clearly enough to pull them in from where you are. This means a good quality base antenna, up as high as you can get it. Also when scanning Mesa, keep the squelch all the way to the minimum. That's about all you can do. Sorry I don't have better news for ya.

-AZ

Wow - North of B of A and you have reception issues - whew... I guess I'm really pushing it then.

Do you think the problem is related to CQPSK, or is digital just going to be difficult period?

 

[AZScanner]

Good question - I think digital in general complicates things.

See, in the analog world, if a signal is weak or marginal, it doesn't matter - the whole thing still comes thru the speaker. You might hear static or adjacent channel interference, but usually you can still make it out.

Digital is different. It's an all or nothing proposition. If a packet comes thru with too many errors in it, the scanner will reject it and you'll never hear it. If too many packets get rejected... well, you get the idea. "Code 4, subject in custody" becomes "Co-- 4 su--je-- in c---stody".

I also have a BC796 that has a digital card designed for CQPSK reception, and it does the same thing, so to me that rules out CQPSK. I'd put up a better antenna but I live in an apartment, so my choices are severely limited there.

-AZ

 

[Ravenfalls]

Try & program the Tempe System since some Phx traffic occasionally is simulcasted there. Be sure you program the Mesa system using Control Ch mode. In the Phx area "Simulcast" Sys A (PD) & B (FD) mainly work within the city. Fill in sites are then used outside the city called IR's with very little traffic like Thompson Peak & South Mtn sites. You want to be on a simulcast site A, B C, D or E.

If you are going to be in the N Valley Sat night at 6pm there is a scanner group get together at Deer Valley Airport Restaurant 702 W Deer Valley, Phx 85027. They usually sit outside or inside when everyone gets cold.

Alot of people there have 396's & can help you out.

 

[InlandAZ]

I've added the CC's for all nearby locations - but it's still rare that I receive anything that can be heard clearly.