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Has Motorola dropped the P25 CAP ball ?

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mobile1

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Motorola still has not passed the P25 Compliance Assessment Program. Why ? 3 other vendors have passed the test as of today : EF Johnson with 2 portable and 2 mobile models, Harris with 4 portables and Tait with 1 portable, 1 mobile and 1 base station. Why is Motorola foot dagging on this? The Saskatchewan Provincial Public Safety Telecommunications Network is a M/A-Com/Harris P25 system and the Motorola XTS/XTL2500 radios that were just purchased from Motorola do not work on this system. Why ?
 

SCPD

QRT
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Virginia
The Second Coming

Motorola still has not passed the P25 Compliance Assessment Program. Why ? 3 other vendors have passed the test as of today : EF Johnson with 2 portable and 2 mobile models, Harris with 4 portables and Tait with 1 portable, 1 mobile and 1 base station. Why is Motorola foot dagging on this? The Saskatchewan Provincial Public Safety Telecommunications Network is a M/A-Com/Harris P25 system and the Motorola XTS/XTL2500 radios that were just purchased from Motorola do not work on this system. Why ?
You got a link to what this P25 Compliance Assessment Program is all about?

It's interesting that there seems to be a lot of hoopla and rah-rah lately from Moto about MotoTrbo being the greatest thing since Marconi tickled the airwaves.
 

N0YFE

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P25 cap

Motorola still has not passed the P25 Compliance Assessment Program. Why ? 3 other vendors have passed the test as of today : EF Johnson with 2 portable and 2 mobile models, Harris with 4 portables and Tait with 1 portable, 1 mobile and 1 base station. Why is Motorola foot dagging on this? The Saskatchewan Provincial Public Safety Telecommunications Network is a M/A-Com/Harris P25 system and the Motorola XTS/XTL2500 radios that were just purchased from Motorola do not work on this system. Why ?

Here's the link
P25 Compliance Assessment Program - Fact Sheet

The Project 25 Compliance Assessment Program (P25 CAP) was established on the basis of requests from the United States Congress to ensure the aforementioned requirements are met. P25 CAP is a voluntary system that provides a mechanism for P25 equipment suppliers to formally demonstrate their products' compliance with a key subset of requirements in the P25 standards.

Motorola has information on their CAP compliance here
www.motorola.com/Business/US-EN/Business...25/P25+CAP_US-EN
 

N0YFE

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Radios not working

Regarding the radio not working, have you checked with the system admin to make sure they are programmed correctly for the system. One other issues could be the system is running P25 but also using some of the vendors proprietary functions built onto their network.

One of the topics that I see comming up a lot is the discussion of P25 and the confusion lies in the fact that P25 is a protocol and vendors have the option of adding in their own stuff on top of it and then only their equipment will work.

Right now the only way to have a P25 system that will work with multiple vendors and equipment is to require it to be P25 CAI (common air interface). If your system isn't using P25 CAI, that could be where some of the problems are stemming from.
 

mikewazowski

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We've got an agency that has purchased EADS P25 infrastructure and Motorola end user gear. They don't seem to have any reservations mixing vendors.

I'm sure the Harris and Motorola engineers are working hard on your problem, though.
 
N

N_Jay

Guest
Most of the incompatibilities have ended up being misunderstandings on the meaning of various programming settings.

I have not heard of any not being able to be resolved.

They do make good fodder for the blogs.:roll:
 

gr8tff

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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9530/5.0.0.328 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Motorola programming at this time allows for 25 possible control channels. Harris P25 systems have the ability to use any frequency as a control channel. That is too many frequencies to fit into moto's 25. I feel your pain. My ma com Harris radio sucks.
 

ThalesLiberty

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False information

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9530/5.0.0.328 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Motorola programming at this time allows for 25 possible control channels. Harris P25 systems have the ability to use any frequency as a control channel. That is too many frequencies to fit into moto's 25. I feel your pain. My ma com Harris radio sucks.
They will do 128 controll channels and do full spectrum control channel search, so the number of channels is not the problem
 
N

N_Jay

Guest
There are many statewide systems that are approaching 200 control channels
All that matters is CC frequencies right?

Since most of the large systems are Motorola, which one has more than 25, if that is the Moto limit?
 

greenthumb

Colorado DB Administrator
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Don't forget that Motorola radios can use a full spectrum control channel scan if it can't find one in the pre-programmed list, so it really doesn't matter what's programmed in it since the radio will eventually find it.
 

wa8pyr

Technischer Guru
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Ohio
Regarding the radio not working, have you checked with the system admin to make sure they are programmed correctly for the system. One other issues could be the system is running P25 but also using some of the vendors proprietary functions built onto their network.

One of the topics that I see coming up a lot is the discussion of P25 and the confusion lies in the fact that P25 is a protocol and vendors have the option of adding in their own stuff on top of it and then only their equipment will work.

Right now the only way to have a P25 system that will work with multiple vendors and equipment is to require it to be P25 CAI (common air interface). If your system isn't using P25 CAI, that could be where some of the problems are stemming from.
P25 CAI (the voice part only) is only part of the puzzle; if a system is P25 compliant with a P25 control channel (no matter the vendor) then all P25 compliant radios should work, no matter the manufacturer. Proprietary features for one manufacturer are ignored by radios from other manufacturers, per the standard.
 
N

N_Jay

Guest
P25 CAI (the voice part only) is only part of the puzzle; if a system is P25 compliant with a P25 control channel (no matter the vendor) then all P25 compliant radios should work, no matter the manufacturer. Proprietary features for one manufacturer are ignored by radios from other manufacturers, per the standard.
From a Standards perspective you are correct, but if an agency has built the use of a proprietary feature into their procedures then the "system" can be perceived as not working.
 
K

kb0nly

Guest
All that matters is CC frequencies right?

Since most of the large systems are Motorola, which one has more than 25, if that is the Moto limit?
ARMER in MN will.... SR in SD does also.... Pretty much any statewide system has more than 25 control channels. Unless its a small state.
 

nova1010

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ONTARIO CANADA
ARMER in MN will.... SR in SD does also.... Pretty much any statewide system has more than 25 control channels. Unless its a small state.
I agree I can see a state wide systems having more than 25 CCs like any province wide system here in Ontario but county wide systems no the number would be alot smaller than 25 CCs.
 

mikey60

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How many systems need over 25 control channels?
Based on the current RR Database information:

The State of Michigan system currently has 49 Unique primary control channel frequencies across the system. Adding in the Alternates that number jumps to 92.

The ARMOR system in Minnesota has 76 Unique primary control channels, and 116 when the alternates are added in.

The Colorado DTRS system has 116 Unique primary control channels, and 243 when you add the alternates.

Mike
 
N

N_Jay

Guest
I learn something new every day.

I was assuming the 25 CC limit was correct, and assumed that most systems re-used CC frequencies to avoid CC Scan list issues.
 

datainmotion

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I learn something new every day.

I was assuming the 25 CC limit was correct, and assumed that most systems re-used CC frequencies to avoid CC Scan list issues.
FWIW - in Colorado, the CC frequencies on the statewide DTRS are re-used. I believe Mike's count takes that into account though.
 
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