Help! 217 Mhz Comms Heard in Vegas

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radact

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Las Vegas, Nv
I was using the signal stalker option on my Pro-97 and came across some very, very clear conversations on the 217 Mhz section of the band. Sounds like a Taxi/Shuttle service and possibly the local trash pick up service, Republic Services on a Trunked system.

I checked the FCC freq search site and couldn't find anything licensed in Las Vegas or surrounding areas. Take a listen to the following freqs and see if you can figure out who/what it is.

Thanks.

217.5675
217.6175
217.6925
217.7625
217.8175
217.8425
217.8925
 

Mick

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Here are my logs from last April:

Las Vegas 217 MHz TRS list w/6.25 KHz

217.00000
217.00625
217.01250
217.01875
217.02500
217.03125
217.03750
217.04375
217.05000
217.05625
217.06250
217.06875
217.07500
217.08125
217.08750
217.09375 (Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #1) GONE)
217.10000
217.10625
217.11250
217.11875
217.12500
217.13125
217.13750
217.14375 (Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #1) GONE)
217.15000
217.15625
217.16250
217.16875 (Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #1) GONE)
217.17500
217.18125
217.18750
217.19375
217.20000
217.20625
217.21250
217.21875
217.22500
217.23125
217.23750
217.24375
217.25000
217.25625
217.26250
217.26875
217.27500
217.28125
217.28750
217.29375
217.30000
217.30625
217.31250
217.31875
217.32500
217.33125
217.33750
217.34375
217.35000
217.35625
217.36250
217.36875
217.37500
217.38125
217.38750
217.39375
217.40000
217.40625
217.41250
217.41875
217.42500
217.43125
217.43750
217.44375 active
217.45000
217.45625
217.46250
217.46875 active-D031 Taxi?
217.47500
217.48125
217.48750
217.49375 active-data only
(Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #1) GONE)
217.50000
217.50625
217.51250
217.51875 Active
217.52500
217.53125
217.53750
217.54375 Active
217.55000
217.55625
217.56250
217.56875 Active Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #1- listed wrong at RR as 217.5625)
217.57500
217.58125
217.58750
217.59375
217.60000
217.60625
217.61250
217.61875 Active
217.62500
217.63125 Active Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #1- listed wrong as 217.625)
217.63750
217.64375
217.65000
217.65625
217.66250
217.66875
217.67500
217.68125
217.68750
217.69375 Active Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #1)
217.70000
217.70625
217.71250
217.71875
217.72500
217.73125
217.73750
217.74375 Active Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #2)
217.75000
217.75625 Active
217.76250
217.76875 Active
217.77500
217.78125
217.78750
217.79375
217.80000
217.80625
217.81250
217.81875 Active Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #1)
217.82500
217.83125 Active
217.83750
217.84375 Active Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #2)
217.50000
217.85625
217.86250
217.86875
217.87500
217.88125
217.88750
217.89375 Active Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #1)
217.90000
217.90625
217.91250
217.91875
217.92500
217.93125
217.93750 Active, paging only
217.94375 Active
217.95000
217.95625 (Maritime Comm/Land Mobile (old RR name - Las Vegas #1) GONE)
217.96250
217.96875 Active
217.97500
217.98125
217.98750
217.99375


(Rev. 16 April 2010)
 

radact

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Messages
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Location
Las Vegas, Nv
217 mhz Comms

WOW! Thanks.

But why is it when you do an FCC search, nothing comes up as being licensed in Las Vegas? Secret freqs?
 

Thunderknight

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Some frequencies or bands are licensed by market (usually a metro area) or even nationwide. Not all services are site licensed like we usually see in the 150 MHz or 450 MHz bands. (Even in the 150s there are exceptions).
 

sigint1

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My FCC search came up with WQCP-809 and WQCP-814 - both market licenses
 

Hooligan

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Location
Clark County, Nevada
I get a Close-Call hit on some 217Mhz analog voice users along I-15 just E of Apex. There's a truck stop on the N side & some sort of truck scale operation on the S side.
 

ai8o

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Messages
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Location
Lexington, NC
217 mhz

I am reading this forum from North Carolina, so I am NOT familiar with Nevada geography.

Are there any navigable rivers near Vegas that would have commercial Barge traffic?

On the navigable waters & rivers of the eastern US there is a service called Automated Maritime Telecommunications System (AMTS) that uses 217-218 MHz.

Block A has 40 channels 217.5-218 MHz
Block B has 40 channels 217.0-217.5 MHz.

Perhaps you are hearing AMTS mobile users.

AMTS offers both voice and data communications to inland maritime customers. The system is operated by a network of private carriers across the country, with coverage primarily including coastal and inland waterways.

.
 

Mick

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There are no rivers in the Las Vegas area, and similar to the Los Angeles, California area there are regular businesses using 217 MHz frqs TRS's.

Here is an example of the L.A. TRS's:
Touch Tel Mobile (217 MHz LTR #1) Trunking System, Los Angeles, California - Scanner Frequencies
Touch Tel Mobile (217 MHz LTR #2) Trunking System, Los Angeles, California - Scanner Frequencies

The Las Vegas 217 MHz TRS's used to be listed under Clark County but have been marked "depreciated" and not viewable unless you have the original URL.

I am reading this forum from North Carolina, so I am NOT familiar with Nevada geography.

Are there any navigable rivers near Vegas that would have commercial Barge traffic?

On the navigable waters & rivers of the eastern US there is a service called Automated Maritime Telecommunications System (AMTS) that uses 217-218 MHz.

Block A has 40 channels 217.5-218 MHz
Block B has 40 channels 217.0-217.5 MHz.

Perhaps you are hearing AMTS mobile users.

AMTS offers both voice and data communications to inland maritime customers. The system is operated by a network of private carriers across the country, with coverage primarily including coastal and inland waterways.

.
 

Mick

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Messages
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Location
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More info on 217 MHz

§ 90.259 Assignment and use of frequencies
in the bands 216–220 MHz...
(a) 216–220 MHz band. (1) Frequencies
in the 216–220 MHz band may be assigned
to applicants that establish eligibility
in the Industrial/Business Pool.
(2) All operation is secondary to the
fixed and mobile services, including the
Low Power Radio Service.
(3) In the 216–217 MHz band, no new
assignments will be made after January
1, 2002.
(4) In the 217–220 MHz band, the maximum
transmitter output power is 2
watts. The maximum antenna height
above average terrain (HAAT) is 152 m
(500 feet).
(5) In the 217–220 MHz band, base, mobile,
and operational fixed is permitted.
(6) Wide area operations will not be
authorized. The area of normal day-today
operations will be described in the
application in terms of maximum distance
from a geographical center (latitude
and longitude).
(7) Assignable frequencies occur in
increments of 6.25 kHz from 217.0625
MHz to 219.99375 MHz.
(8) Licensees may combine contiguous
channels up to 50 kHz, and more
than 50 kHz only upon a showing of
adequate justification.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/octqtr/pdf/47cfr90.259.pdf

I did not see the Las Vegas area mentioned in this docket though.
 

nd5y

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I did not see the Las Vegas area mentioned in this docket though.
It is an AMTS license which are under part 80 not 90.
Section 80.475(c) says an AMTS system can provide private mobile radio services.
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:

AMTS (and some other services) have market based geographical area licenses isntead of site based.
They don't show up in the RadioReference FCC data.
They don't show up in the FCC GMR search page FCC General Menu Reports 3.1.14 October 7, 2010
You have to use the advance license or application search
License Search - Advanced License Search
Application Search - Advanced Application Search
and hit the GEOSEARCH button instead of SEARCH. Then you have to enter the location.



http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/bandplans/AMTS_band_plan.pdf
Automated Maritime Telecommunications System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

bryan_herbert

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Have to revive this thread. While searching for tow trucks I found one or more LTR systems.

217.61875 LCN 04
217.81875 LCN 05
217.69375 LCN 09
220.46250 LCN 12
217.75625 LCN 14

217.84375 LCN???

Talkgroups
0-09-061 Republic Services Mobile to Base?
0-09-071 Republic Services Landfill Ops?
0-09-081 Republic Services Base to Mobile?
0-12-133 Towing Service

I checked the FCC database including the advanced search link listed above and cant find any valid licenses using these frequencies.
 

EricCottrell

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Messages
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Location
Boston, Ma
Hello,

The 217 MHz band was auctioned off. There are two frequency blocks.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/bandplans/AMTS_band_plan.pdf

This is a block license covering a wide area. There is no location licenses showing site frequencies. There is likely a market license covering a wide area.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/maps/AMTS_map.pdf

Maritime Communications/Land Mobile won the auction and appears to operate Trunked Systems in Las Vegas. The systems are marked as depreciated.
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=6075
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=6076

73 Eric
 

bryan_herbert

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So after letting the LCN finder on my BCD436HP go overnight I now show this lineup

217.61875 LCN 04
217.84375 LCN 05
217.69375 LCN 09
220.46250 LCN 12
217.81875 LCN 13
217.75625 LCN 14

Im not convinced 217.84375 belongs to this system. While the talkgroup numbering is similar, the signal strength of the traffic on that freq is trash compared to the others. There's either additional freqs that I haven't logged yet or its a single-channel LTR.
 

bryan_herbert

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Some of the talkgroups logged this morning

0-04-050
0-04-052
0-04-070
0-04-072
0-05-052
0-05-072
0-05-074
0-05-126
0-09-054 Republic Services Mobile to Base on 0-09-074
0-09-055 Republic Services
0-09-057 Republic Services
0-09-061 Republic Services Mobile to Base on 0-09-081
0-09-071 Republic Services Landfill?
0-09-072 Republic Services Recylcing
0-09-074 Republic Services Base to Mobiles on 0-09-054
0-09-081 Republic Services Base to Mobiles on 0-09-061
0-09-094 Republic Services
0-09-097 Republic Services
0-12-133 Towing Service
0-14-210 Taxi
 

EricCottrell

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So after letting the LCN finder on my BCD436HP go overnight I now show this lineup

217.61875 LCN 04
217.84375 LCN 05
217.69375 LCN 09
220.46250 LCN 12
217.81875 LCN 13
217.75625 LCN 14

Im not convinced 217.84375 belongs to this system. While the talkgroup numbering is similar, the signal strength of the traffic on that freq is trash compared to the others. There's either additional freqs that I haven't logged yet or its a single-channel LTR.
Hello,

If this is a straight LTR system, then it can be difficult to figure out if it is multiple sites. I have seen isolated sites setup by the same company where the LCNs on each site are unique. You need to figure out if any 00-05 users show up on other frequencies. Since LCN 5 is a home channel you could run an LTR analyzer on it and see what other LCNs are mentioned.

It is possible that you are in a dead spot as far as 217.84375 is concerned or there is a transmitter/antenna system problem. You could try getting much closer to the site and comparing signal levels.

73 Eric
 

ecps92

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Here are the Licenses for AZ from the FCC for Qa, QT, QO, ZV, QD licenses

Hello,

The 217 MHz band was auctioned off. There are two frequency blocks.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/bandplans/AMTS_band_plan.pdf

This is a block license covering a wide area. There is no location licenses showing site frequencies. There is likely a market license covering a wide area.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/maps/AMTS_map.pdf

Maritime Communications/Land Mobile won the auction and appears to operate Trunked Systems in Las Vegas. The systems are marked as depreciated.
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=6075
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=6076

73 Eric
 

bryan_herbert

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There's no license, site info available anywhere and there's over a dozen sites surrounding Las Vegas so I have no idea which direction to move in.

All of the Republic Services talkgroups (0-09-###) seem to stay on 217.69375, have yet to see them on another freq. The same goes for 0-14-210, the only freq I see it on is 217.84375.

Hello,

If this is a straight LTR system, then it can be difficult to figure out if it is multiple sites. I have seen isolated sites setup by the same company where the LCNs on each site are unique. You need to figure out if any 00-05 users show up on other frequencies. Since LCN 5 is a home channel you could run an LTR analyzer on it and see what other LCNs are mentioned.

It is possible that you are in a dead spot as far as 217.84375 is concerned or there is a transmitter/antenna system problem. You could try getting much closer to the site and comparing signal levels.

73 Eric
 

ecps92

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Correct on no site info as these are Market Licenses

With a Market License they can/do put it anywhere within that Market
and use any Freq within the license as many are old Paging Channels
they get the Base Freq and then +/- a few khz

Close Call / DF is basically only one way to find the site, unless insider info is shared.

There's no license, site info available anywhere and there's over a dozen sites surrounding Las Vegas so I have no idea which direction to move in.

All of the Republic Services talkgroups (0-09-###) seem to stay on 217.69375, have yet to see them on another freq. The same goes for 0-14-210, the only freq I see it on is 217.84375.
 

KevinC

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Somewhere other than home :(
There's no license, site info available anywhere and there's over a dozen sites surrounding Las Vegas so I have no idea which direction to move in.

All of the Republic Services talkgroups (0-09-###) seem to stay on 217.69375, have yet to see them on another freq. The same goes for 0-14-210, the only freq I see it on is 217.84375.
You may know this, but if their "Home Channel" is free they will always use that channel. On little used systems where users are spread out home channel wise you may not see them trunk much.
 
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