Help deciding: VX-231, Icom F24/F4011, or RCA BR250

[BHCTodd]

After my local Moto dealer tried to talk me into the MotoTRBO at $700 a piece to replace my worn-out HT1000s "because your company always prides itself on owning good equipment"; I decided to do some research. After talking to a bunch of other dealers with their own motives, I've learned more that I thought nessesary and have come up with the following models to choose from.

Vertex Standard VX-231 ($187/per & $2695 for the package I need)
Icom F24 ($179/per & $2599...)
Icom F4011 ($169/per & $2499...)
RCA BR250 ($189/per & $2661...)

Note for consideration:
I am going to purchase 10 portable units to spread out among my fleet of cranes and crew in Long Beach, CA. UHF is assumed to be preferred because of variable structures at the job-sites. No repeaters or base units are needed, I need a simple powerful, rugged two way for comm between men at jobsite and that's all.

Benefits and draw backs of each:
Icom and RCA models I've noted have the best batteries
Icom F24 and Vertex have 2 tone and/or 5 tone
Vertex has the best warranty @ 3 years, followed by the RCA @ 2 years, Icom @ 1 year
RCA has essentially one supplier, however they are local to me
Vertex has worst battery

Variable I need your help with:
Warranty issues with each MFG.
Real world experience with any of these units
Everything I'm missing...

Thanks, in advance, for any help.

 

[kayn1n32008]

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+1 vote for Vertex. I use one every day for work and ham radio. Not sure what you mean by 'worst' battery, but I have been using my vertex in colder than -20C, for 8-10 hours a day and have not had any issues at all, I love that the speaker/mic is retained by screws. Audio is excellent loud and clear, the radio is light, but solid, I posted a photo in a thread in the vertex forum after a long day flagging leases whilke it was colder than -20C. They are tough and very well built. You will not be disapointed with the vx-231. Simple and rugged radios.

 

[kayn1n32008]

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I used my VX-231 in a huge 1million hectar area with a 2 repeaters for movement control and had no ssues getting through. Pm me and I will tell you more about them.

 

[BHCTodd]

By worst battery I was referring to the milliampere-hour rating, which is all I have to go by, I know many other factors come into play.

Vertex VX-231: 1150 mAh
Icom and RCA: 2000 mAh

Thanks for your replies so far, exactly the type of information I'm looking for.

 

[TampaTyron]

The vertex seems the best out of all of those in my experience. The RCA is probably made by HYT, which has been poor on reliability for the low ended models. The Icom lower end units are made out of a less expensive/thinner plastic housing and they flex a good bit when squuezed, also the battery latching system on them is not straight forward for newer radio users (read that as they bend the crap out of the battery contacts). We have had issues with rx on the vertex as well (specifically the ceramic rx if filter going bad), but we sell hundreds a month and expect some issues. TT

 

[texasemt13]

I fourth the Vertex products...

 

[HVS1717]

I've been using my rca br250 radios for 5 months now and no complaints. Im really happy with my purchase at this point. Ive been using them at our warehouse and others in the office. I had used the CP200 but went with this because of the price and durability they sold me on. This radio also has that screw you talked about on the vertex also btw.

 

[BHCTodd]

Yah, I've read about the RCA licensed brand name deal and that is definitely a concern. With less than a 10% difference between the mentioned models I am definitely leaning towards the Vertex which is the most expensive of the lot.

Does anyone have any warranty experience with Vertex, or any other brand for that matter.

 

[JRayfield]

I'm a tech (I'm part owner of a 2-way shop) so I pay very close attention to radios that we sell based on how good they are 'technically'.

While you've ruled out the Motorola XPR-series, you would probably find that they would last longer than any of the lower-cost radios (including Vertex).

However, with that said, I would definitely choose the Vertex over the others that you mentioned. The Vertex radios have proven to be quite rugged (again, not as rugged as more expensive Motorola units, but very good, nevertheless).

I would be concerned about the RCA radios, since they aren't really "RCA". They've just licensed the name to use. I'm not sure who 'they' really are. The RCA are liable to be 'here today...gone tomorrow'. Ever hear of Raven Communications, in the Kansas City area? Probably not.

The ICOM, in my opinion, can't carry a candle to the Vertex. The Vertex are MUCH more dependable, from a durability standpoint. And, I think you would find that performance of the Vertex is better than the ICOM, too.

As to warranty, Vertex is great - not just good, but great. As an example, they repaired, under warranty, a VX-351 for one of my customers, that was definitely damaged (abuse). But they fixed it anyway, at no charge. My customer was so excited that he had to call me to let me know (he sent it in to them without letting me know that he was going to try that. I'd already told him that they wouldn't do it, because it had been damaged (abused). They made a 'liar' out of me <G>)). Of course, this might have been an exceptional case, but it still was amazing.

As to the battery on the VX-231 being the 'worst', are you referring to the capacity (mAH)? The battery on the VX-231 is rated at only 1150 mAH. That is pretty low. A 2000 mAH Lithium Ion battery pack is also available for that radio, for only $20 more (MSRP). You might ask the dealer about what kind of 'deal' can you do for you, with that upgrade. Also, the VX-351 comes standard with a 2000 mAH Lithium Ion pack, so you might want to consider that radio.

Vertex is a very unusual company. While 80% of it is owned by Motorola, the company is still 'run' by the former owner (who still owns Yaesu). The company is operated as if it's a little 'family business'. I've never seen anything like it in the 32+ years that I've been in the 2-way radio industry.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Yah, I've read about the RCA licensed brand name deal and that is definitely a concern. With less than a 10% difference between the mentioned models I am definitely leaning towards the Vertex which is the most expensive of the lot.

Does anyone have any warranty experience with Vertex, or any other brand for that matter.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8350i/4.6.1.294 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/126)

Like I stated before, even though the battery is rated at 1150maH I have ran my vertex colder than -20C 8-10hours on a very busy repeater and not had the radio alert for low battery condition. I have always liked /\/\oto but after using the vx-231 I am sold on Vertex. Mine are Vhf and I have all 16 channels programmed, I have TX freqs spread from 143Mhz up to 172Mhz and Rx spread across the same range and it hears pretty much uniformly from top to bottom.

 

[RodStrong]

Icoms have a two year warranty.

I sent you a PM regarding some additional info.

 

[davidgcet]

for 30 years we sold Moto primarily and tried other product lines to sell as a low cost alternative. the modern Vertex Standard product line, especially the VX-231, is the only radio line outside of M products we could get to sell around here. i have put several hundred of them on the streets and the only ones we have had come back were severely abused, even some of those the warranty covered them. the only time i have had a radio rejected for warranty was one that had some major water damage. that was our fault for even sending it in, it looked new and we did not even crack it open for a quick look see before boxing it up.

Icom is a decent low cost unit, but from our limited experience when selling them for a few months they will not stand up to abuse. even minor drops seem to knock them out of service.

RCA, well when they actually made their radios they were crap. now that they just license the name to someone else, i am sure they are still crap.

cheap is good for folks who don't REQUIRE a radio works, but not so good if you need to have a radio that you know will work everytime you pick it up.

 

[BHCTodd]

Wow, I'm very impressed with the response I've gotten to what I was afraid would be considered a newbe question. I thought, for sure, that I would get at least a few "DO A SEARCH" replies (I did search, by the way. That's how I found out about the RCA licensing.).

I have no doubt the expensive Motos are bullet-proof and would last a long time. I have these HT1000s as testament to that. I just can't justify spending over three times the amount on that durability. Then I'd also have to deal with putting the distractions of texting, etc into the hands of my employees; no thank you, I have enough problems with the cell phones they carry as it is.

I appreciate the correction on the Icom warranty. I was told it was one year, by a salesman trying to push the RCA if I remember right.

 

[StanJayvon]

Vertex has good radios, Icom also. The Icom radio that you listed comes with 2 year warranty, same as the RCA radios. Here is my experience. I am an Operation Manager in a Warehouse and have been handling our radio needs for over 8 years. It is a 2-storey building, about 60 000 sq. ft. We currently have both Vertex VX-231 and RCA BR250 radios as well as some Motorola CP200. They all work well and cover great without any problems, except the fact that that when my VX-231 radios brake, which happens very often, I have to wait 2 to 4 weeks to be repaired. Their speakers are always going bad and the PTT buttons fall out very often. I feel like it is a pain to constantly send radios for repair and it takes forever to receive them back. My local dealer that sold us the VX-231 radios is not very helpful either. We have had the RCA radios for a little over 8 months now I had to send only 1 radio back for repair to the RCA dealer, because one of my guys ran over it with the forklift. Even though the radio was working just fine after that, we wanted to replace the case. I got it back for just a week. My impression is that the RCA radios are as durable as the CP200, definitely much better comparing to the VX-231.

The audio quality on the RCA is much better than the VX-231, they are much louder and they come with 1-hour rapid charger and 2000mAh battery standard. In order to match that you need to upgrade the VX-231 which costs more and you are going to end up paying $30-$50 more. I don't care if the information about the RCA license deal is correct; I just know that it is quality product that works great for me and my company. Saves us money too.

I could not resist replying to Mr. JRayfield, that sounds a lot like the local Motorola Dealer who keeps trying to sell me on the XPR radios that cost like $700.00. They are probably great radios. Are they really that much more durable? Are they really going to last that long to justify spending $700.00 per radio plus around $80.00 per year, per radio for battery replacements. "But it has digital capability; it has this and that..........." We do not need a radio that can turn into a rocket and fly us to the moon. We just need instant and reliable communication, push and talk.

Good luck. I hope I was able to help. You have to make your own decision but in my opinion, definitely it will not be a wrong one if you go with the RCA radios.

Stan Jayvon

 

[kayn1n32008]

Their speakers are always going bad and the PTT buttons fall out very often.

That suprises me, although I ALWAYS use a speaker/mic so that is a problem. I have not come across and probably wont either. The MH-45(6?) is a solid speaker/mic somewhat heavy and has decent audio, plus the plug is retained my 2 screws so I donot have to worry about it seperating.

My radio spends its days in a survey vest, up on my left shoulder. It is exposed to the elements it had been covered in ice, snow, dirt, Spruce needles, Jack Pine needles, Tamarack needles, and various small tree parts. All from pushing through the bush surveying pipelines and leases. To say the least I am not very gentle to my radios, and I have not had any issues with it.

The audio quality on the RCA is much better than the VX-231, they are much louder and they come with 1-hour rapid charger and 2000mAh battery standard. In order to match that you need to upgrade the VX-231 which costs more and you are going to end up paying $30-$50 more.

Yes the vx-231 battery capacity is significantly less than the stock Icom. I have think this a minor issue. I have had my vx-231's at and below -20 Centigrade for 8-10+ hours a day for the better part of 2 months on a very busy repeater (RX around 70% and significant amounts of TX) with out every hearing a low battery alert. I really think that unless you are going to be using it for 12+ hours a day with lots of transmitting the capacity difference is not going to be an issue.

"But it has digital capability; it has this and that..........." We do not need a radio that can turn into a rocket and fly us to the moon. We just need instant and reliable communication, push and talk.

Stan Jayvon

My company is the same way, the only features that we use on our vx-231's are pl (on all but 2 of the channels that are programmed) and one of the buttons is set for toggled carrier squelch . We only have one of the two side buttons programmed. They are used, most of the time, on our company simplex channel for short (0.5-5km) comms while surveying.

I have found the Vx-231 to be a robust and dummy proof portable. Simply set the volume, pick your channel and PTT. No bells, no wistles, just a nice, solid and simple radio.

 

[BHCTodd]

So, the final decision is that I will be ordering 15x of the Vertex Standard VX-231 with the higher capacity 2000 mAh batteries, a 6 bank charger w/ 110 & 12v input, 12v individual rapid chargers, & MH-450s medium duty speaker mics.

I was referred, by one of the members here, to a very friendly and knowledgeable gentleman named Tom Ohlsson at Red Dog Radios. He put together the system I wanted, interjected recommendations that saved me money and improved on the "package" offerings the other dealers quoted me, and made fun of my home-town basketball team. Best experience so far with a dealer and he was only 2% more expensive than the cheapest web-based seller I found (Who, by the way, knew absolutely nothing about this technology or the items they were selling.); well worth the extra $60 on such a complex order for a newbie.

Thanks again to all who have participated in this discussion. This thread definitely sold me on the brand I chose and introduced me to a fine vendor.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9630/4.7.1.57 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/109)

glad you found a great dealer. I hope the radios work for you as well as they have for me and the company I work for. Give us an update down the road on how they are performing for ya!

 

[TampaTyron]

Just for reference, the VX-231's had a PTT button issue with the first and second round of plastic moldings that came from the factory. We have a big bag of the new ones that we use to replace the ones on radios coming in for service. I am not a vertex or motorola fanboy by any stretch, but there is a difference in tx and rx sensitivity/selectivity in a low end icom/motorola/vertex and a high end icom/motorola/vertex. Another dig towards Icom is that their electrical specs change per manufacturing lot due to component spec changes by component lot. Couldnt sell them to my State medical customers due to specs that changed by the batch. TT