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GTR8000

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Priority ID SCAN might not work as you believe it does. What that means is that when scanning the scanner will favor priority TGs over others. I'm going by memory of what UPMan said on this, but I believe I stated that correctly.
I would like to hear an explanation as to how exactly trunking priority is supposed to work if the scanner is unable to decode messages carried on the traffic channels?

As we are talking about a trunked system, there would be only two sources of voice grant messages: the control channel, or the traffic channel. So then, if the scanner does not use "preemption priority", exactly how is there any priority at all? The notion that "the scanner will favor priority talkgroups over others" makes absolutely no sense. When a grant comes across the control channel, as long as that talkgroup is not avoided/locked out and/or the scanner is in ID Search mode, it's going to follow the grant and tune to that traffic channel. If another talkgroup that is flagged as priority becomes active, the scanner has no way to "favor" that priority talkgroup if it doesn't respond to the grant broadcast over the traffic channel. So how exactly is this "favoring" working? If two channel grants come across the control channel simultaneously, the scanner will tune to the one flagged for priority? That's rather pointless in the grand scheme of things, as it's a pretty infrequent occurrence to have a tie like that @ 40 opcodes per second.

Long story short, once the scanner tunes to the traffic channel, there is no other way for it to "favor priority talkgroups" without using preemption. If this feature works with other system types like EDACS or Motorola 3600, and if it works with P25 FDMA transmissions, but does not work with P25 TDMA transmission...then that is unexpected behavior, which by definition is a bug. Period.

I won't belabor the point any further; it's on your list, so be it.
 

JoeBearcat

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Please see my descriptions above and/or the manual (page 11). I have requested clarifications since the manual does not reference any P25 priority at all, AND mentions two priority schemes (detailing the non-preemptive priority and how it works). Any further speculation on anyone's part is pointless. Let's wait for the official specs.

If it is supposed to be preemptive priority, then it moves up two categories on the fix list. Personally, I would like every system type to be preemptive priority, but I have to go by the design specs as to where this falls.
 

WX4JCW

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If you set a database avoid in Sentinel, it will persist after the database is updated. But if you set an avoid in the scanner, it gets overwritten by what's in Sentinel the next time you write to the scanner.
yeah but its not staying persistent with sites, I avoided lets say all the mobile starcom21 sites in sentinel and it will get wiped out, it doesn't happen with talkgroups, systems or departments, just sites
 

jonwienke

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yeah but its not staying persistent with sites, I avoided lets say all the mobile starcom21 sites in sentinel and it will get wiped out, it doesn't happen with talkgroups, systems or departments, just sites
That's a Sentinel bug, then. Site Avoids set in Sentinel should persist through database updates, just the same as all of the others.
 

KevinC

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That's all fine and well, however if someone with good intention has their SDS in NAC Search mode and catches the incorrect TDMA traffic channel NAC, and submits that to us...guess what? And no, that it not a hypothetical, I have received submissions based on that exact scenario.

If the scanner is going to display a NAC, then it ought to be the correct one; a workaround such as "hold on the FDMA control channel to find the real NAC" is not a solution, a firmware fix is.

This is the exact scenario I was envisioning would happen. Or even if it's not submitted someone uses the incorrect NAC on their local programming and the result is silence.
 

eaf1956

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That is not a hardware issue, and hardware issues are what is currently being worked on. I have a year+ worth of issues to address. They are not all going to fixed at once. Elsewhere I stated what the priorities are. Hardware issues are first because those are the most difficult to address 'in the field' and I want to make sure as FEW new units ship with that issue as possible. Software and firmware are both a matter of "download the fix".

A display bug that does not affect operation, however inconvenient to you, is not as important as an issue that causes a unit to not function correctly or at all. I still have the display issue to address as well as follow-up on the hum issue and a couple others. While the display issue is relatively rare, it's something that needs to take priority since it is a hardware issue.

The incorrect NAC display is important, and I expect will be addressed - just not today. Priority issue? Same deal. Although I believe preemptive priority on trunked systems was never an advertised spec. I think UPMan commented on this previously. If that is the case it is relegated to the realm of "feature request" which is the lowest priority. So yes, those will not receive replies for some time. And once a feature request is on the list, there is no need to add it again.

Hardware Issues?? SO am I to understand that the "Hardware Issue" will be a hardware fix and not be addressed in the scanners already on the market or in use? And also that any issue that can be fixed via Firmware is back burner type problem. Or for hardware issues, is the intention to recall or repair units already in the field?
 

Ubbe

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yeah but its not staying persistent with sites, I avoided lets say all the mobile starcom21 sites in sentinel and it will get wiped out, it doesn't happen with talkgroups, systems or departments, just sites
Remember that avoids in the DB are set per profile.

If you open up your documents folder and the Uniden folder you'll find the BCDx36HP folder. In there are the different profiles. When you do avoids in Sentinel and exit it says to which profile it did the save. Go to that profile name and its HPDB folder. In there are the files for avoids. It will be one file for each state that has avoids. s_000002.avd would be the Alaska state and if you read it with Notepad it should contain the avoids. It looks like this:

Avoid StateId=2 AgencyId=1001 CGroupId=73294 CFreqId=317178
Avoid StateId=2 TrunkId=2447 SiteId=4344
Avoid StateId=2 TrunkId=2447 TGroupId=11980 Tid=166581

CFreqId are a conventional frequency and SiteId are a trunked site and Tid are a talk group that has been avoided.
That avoid file doesn't get deleted or edited during updates.

The actual database are stored in another folder C:\ProgramData\Uniden\BCDx36HP_Sentinel\Database
and have all the state files. That ProgramData folder might be named differently depending of version of Windows. If you open up the s_000002.hpd file in the database folder, that where refered to in the avoids, with Notepad you can search for SiteId=4344 and it will show what the actual site name and frequencies are that are avoided.

/Ubbe
 

toad99

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Assuming you have too many FLs enabled to make use of FL Quick Keys.

I added your request to the list.
I use FL quick keys all the time. However, if I have, for example 8 FLs active, to hold on one, I would have to turn off the other 7 lists.
 

KK4JUG

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Hardware Issues?? SO am I to understand that the "Hardware Issue" will be a hardware fix and not be addressed in the scanners already on the market or in use? And also that any issue that can be fixed via Firmware is back burner type problem. Or for hardware issues, is the intention to recall or repair units already in the field?
We need to clarify some terms: hardware and software. Hardware you can kick. Software you can only cuss at. :)
 

ka3jjz

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Not so much a scanner issue, but an Uniden product nevertheless.


This page lists numerous Yahoo groups. the Yahoogroup application is gone since December. I know because I spent weeks chopping these links out of nearly 300 pages on our wiki here

Please pass this to whomever is modifying the TWiki. Should be a simple change to make

Mike
 

KevinC

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Anything that is not a current feature, or advertised feature, would be a feature request.

Priority ID SCAN might not work as you believe it does. What that means is that when scanning the scanner will favor priority TGs over others. I'm going by memory of what UPMan said on this, but I believe I stated that correctly. This could have been changed at some point, but I will find out for certain.

The manual is vague on this and does not reference any priority for P25 trunk systems. For trunked systems it says it works as I described above. From the manual: "Priority is checked in between transmissions, when the scanner is receiving the control channel, and during the channel delay period."

For Motorola systems (Type I/II) it does mention preemptive priority. But again, makes no reference to P25 let alone Phase II.

As such, not being preemptive priority is not a bug if I am correct in my description.

While I generally agree with you preemptive priority is preferred, I cannot arbitrarily change the specs based on the way we believe it should be vs the way it was designed.

Yes, I asked for all issues. I also stated that there would be a priority as I stated. I can gather all classes at once. I cannot task the engineers with fixing all the issues at once. Documentation is much faster than resolution.

Your quote is accurate. In the class of feature requests, it would be lower. If it is a bug (and I don't believe that to be the case, but I will find out) then it may be lower than other bugs.

Link to earlier in this thread where priorities are addressed (53 posts ago):

And yes, that was clarified from your quote. More distinctions/classes were added.

If I find that preemptive priority was the design goal, the issue will move up to major bugs, but will still be lower on that list, but is the third area to be addressed, not the first where we currently are.

I have already reached out to the management team and others on this question. When it is clarified, I will post the info.

Paul's comment on Priority ID Scan...


According to this it should preempt an in-progress call if a higher priority call takes place.
 

WX4JCW

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Remember that avoids in the DB are set per profile.

If you open up your documents folder and the Uniden folder you'll find the BCDx36HP folder. In there are the different profiles. When you do avoids in Sentinel and exit it says to which profile it did the save. Go to that profile name and its HPDB folder. In there are the files for avoids. It will be one file for each state that has avoids. s_000002.avd would be the Alaska state and if you read it with Notepad it should contain the avoids. It looks like this:

Avoid StateId=2 AgencyId=1001 CGroupId=73294 CFreqId=317178
Avoid StateId=2 TrunkId=2447 SiteId=4344
Avoid StateId=2 TrunkId=2447 TGroupId=11980 Tid=166581

CFreqId are a conventional frequency and SiteId are a trunked site and Tid are a talk group that has been avoided.
That avoid file doesn't get deleted or edited during updates.

The actual database are stored in another folder C:\ProgramData\Uniden\BCDx36HP_Sentinel\Database
and have all the state files. That ProgramData folder might be named differently depending of version of Windows. If you open up the s_000002.hpd file in the database folder, that where refered to in the avoids, with Notepad you can search for SiteId=4344 and it will show what the actual site name and frequencies are that are avoided.

/Ubbe
ill give Illinois as an example here is what it contains after I avoided the 8 sites on wheels for Starcom 21 Illinois is 47 but Starcomm21 is multi state so has an ID of 0 which may be the problem

here is the contents of the 47 avoid file
Code:
TargetModel    BCDx36HP
FormatVersion    1.00
Avoid    StateId=47    CountyId=2474    CGroupId=76250
Avoid    StateId=47    CountyId=2474    CGroupId=77242
Avoid    StateId=47    CountyId=2474    CGroupId=26872
Avoid    StateId=47    CountyId=2474    CGroupId=73318
Avoid    StateId=47    CountyId=2474    CGroupId=41875
Avoid    StateId=47    CountyId=2506    CGroupId=43192
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=2404
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=795
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=1102
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=2758
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=2064
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=9524
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=621
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=6618
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=1137
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=989
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=2063
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=641
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=4463
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=6720
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=9131
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=3089
Avoid    StateId=47    AgencyId=6250
Avoid    StateId=47    TrunkId=8450
Avoid    StateId=47    TrunkId=695
Avoid    StateId=47    TrunkId=7078    TGroupId=19175
Avoid    StateId=47    TrunkId=5941


now here is the avoids of StateID 0 which is multi state

Code:
TargetModel    BCDx36HP
FormatVersion    1.00
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7836
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7772
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7771
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7837
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=10096
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7796
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7731
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7761
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7760
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7758
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7792
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7764
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=8948
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7734
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7759
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7768
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7732
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7770
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7730
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7755
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7795
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7754
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7793
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7766
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7748
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7733
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7769
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7742
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7757
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7767
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7747    CGroupId=76394
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7747    CGroupId=76395
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7794
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=8202
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=2324    SiteId=16086
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=2324    SiteId=22495
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=2324    SiteId=15842
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=2324    SiteId=18149
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=2324    SiteId=18150
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=2324    SiteId=30604
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=2324    SiteId=16083
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=2324    SiteId=18237
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=6355    TGroupId=21611
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=3856

now it is saving but somehow it gets wiped out after I read the radio

here is State ID 0 after I read the SDS200

Code:
TargetModel    BCDx36HP
FormatVersion    1.00
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7836
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7772
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7771
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7837
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=10096
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7796
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7731
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7761
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7760
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7758
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7792
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7764
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=8948
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7734
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7759
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7768
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7732
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7770
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7730
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7755
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7795
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7754
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7793
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7766
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7748
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7733
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7769
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7742
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7757
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7767
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7747    CGroupId=76394
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7747    CGroupId=76395
Avoid    StateId=0    AgencyId=7794
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=8202
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=6355    TGroupId=21611
Avoid    StateId=0    TrunkId=3856
 

JoeBearcat

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Hardware Issues?? SO am I to understand that the "Hardware Issue" will be a hardware fix and not be addressed in the scanners already on the market or in use? And also that any issue that can be fixed via Firmware is back burner type problem. Or for hardware issues, is the intention to recall or repair units already in the field?

The priority on hardware issues is to stop making them with the issue. The is pretty much a logical requirement. The easiest way to fix a problem is to not let it happen.

The issue of recalls is something that will be addressed later, and that decision will be made by management based on the number of units involved, etc.

Yes, software will be next (I don't expect a lot of those issues). Firmware bugs (first major then minor) will be addressed after that. Then finally feature requests will be considered.

A major bug is something that does not let the unit operate (receive, scan, etc.). Minor bugs are annoyances that do not affect reception.
 

JoeBearcat

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Not so much a scanner issue, but an Uniden product nevertheless.


This page lists numerous Yahoo groups. the Yahoogroup application is gone since December. I know because I spent weeks chopping these links out of nearly 300 pages on our wiki here

Please pass this to whomever is modifying the TWiki. Should be a simple change to make

Mike

The TWIKI has been and continues to be addressed. I am waiting on info from the engineers in order to update some of the pages. I am also waiting on approvals from management on new more detailed help pages.
 

JoeBearcat

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We need to clarify some terms: hardware and software. Hardware you can kick. Software you can only cuss at. :)

Generally true. Hardware is something that may require a tech to fix. Firmware/software can be fixed by virtually any user. Firmware/software can be fixed by a download. 3D printers have not evolved to the point you can DL a hardware fix. :)
 

JoeBearcat

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Paul's comment on Priority ID Scan...


According to this it should preempt an in-progress call if a higher priority call takes place.

And that is true for Motorola trunked systems. That is confirmed to work.

For other system types, the priority is only evaluated between transmissions as UPMan mentioned.

The manual is silent on how P25 operates. I'm actually hoping that it was not added at all because I can make a stronger case for preemptive priority better than changing the priority type from non-preemptive priority to preemptive. Or if it is supposed to be preemptive priority and that is not working that is an easier fix too.

I am still awaiting a reply from management. They are likely awaiting a reply from engineering.
 

KevinC

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And that is true for Motorola trunked systems. That is confirmed to work.

For other system types, the priority is only evaluated between transmissions as UPMan mentioned.

The manual is silent on how P25 operates. I'm actually hoping that it was not added at all because I can make a stronger case for preemptive priority better than changing the priority type from non-preemptive priority to preemptive. Or if it is supposed to be preemptive priority and that is not working that is an easier fix too.

I am still awaiting a reply from management. They are likely awaiting a reply from engineering.

Ok. That thread specifically mentioned P25 trunked so I assumed Paul was referencing P25 trunked...but I could be wrong
 

JoeBearcat

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Ok. That thread specifically mentioned P25 trunked so I assumed Paul was referencing P25 trunked...but I could be wrong

And I hope he was. I can use that as evidence of a bug. Since he wrote those specs, if the specs called for preemptive priority, that becomes a major bug.
 

GTR8000

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And I hope he was. I can use that as evidence of a bug. Since he wrote those specs, if the specs called for preemptive priority, that becomes a major bug.
Isn't that what we started off with on the first page of this thread? I wouldn't have wasted my time or anyone else's otherwise. "Feature request" :rolleyes:
 
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